[Advaita-l] Animals can get Jnana?

[Venkatesh Murthy]

Namaste
On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 9:11 PM, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 8:37 PM, Venkatesh Murthy <vmurthy36 at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Namaste
> > On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 12:51 PM, V Subrahmanian
> > <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 12:22 PM, Parthiban K.K. <
> parthiban.kk at gmail.com
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > According to the Vedic dharma, an animal life is the result of a jiva's
> > > past adherence to niShiddha karma.  The animal/plant life is for bhoga,
> > > experiencing the past karma phala only.  No new karma is accumulated
>  in
> > > these lives.  At the end of this animal life, the jiva might return to
> > > human or take any other form as per its accumulated karma.  From a
> human
> > > life too one  could go up to attain super-human lives and after that
> from
> > > there one could straight land in human or even lower lives.  The
> > > Mundaka/kaTha upanishads have the appropriate mantras for this.
> > >
> >
> > If animal life is for Karma Phala Bhoga only why Viveka Chudamani Sloka 2
> > is saying Jantunaam Narajanma Durlabham? If it is Durlabha we have to
> make
> > a great effort to get it. For Nara Janma who is making the effort? The
> > animal or some other person like Sudra and Stree to get born as male
> > Brahmin?
> >
>
> It is that humans alone who have worked for getting further human janma-s
> in order to continue their sAdhana and culminate it in self-realization.
>  Since we have admitted anAdi sRShTi, there is no room for the question
> about which being did sAdhana for getting human birth.  Since it is very
> easy for humans to follow the niShiddha karma-s only the shAstra warns that
> human janma is very difficult to get and that one aught to make the best
> use of it.
>
Here there will be a confusing situation. If we do only Punya Karmas in
human birth we will get a body in Devas or Gandharvas. It will be a higher
life but it will mostly be for Bhoga only. In the higher Lokas people are
enjoying all type of enjoyments. If we do only Papa Karmas we will born as
animal. There will be Bhoga only again.

To Guarantee Human Birth what must we do? Don't do Punya karma or Papa
Karma. Then what is the use of this type of life for Society?





>
> >
> >  I agree generally animals cannot get Jnana. Viveka Chudamani has said
> for
> > Jnana that person must be a Brahmin male knowing Vedas and Vedanta and
> > other qualifications like Sadhana Catushtaya. Sudras and Strees are ruled
> > out. This is a general rule. But there can be exceptions in the three
> > categories of Sudras, Strees, and Pashus.
> >
>
> In my first response itself I have covered the case of pashu-s by saying
> that a spiritual sAdhana commenced in a human body can continue and
> culminate in a pashu body.  For continuation of sAdhana we have the case of
> jaDabharata's previous life as a deer where he continued to be exceedingly
> careful not to end up getting another animal life.  But for the culmination
> of sAdhana in a pashu body, I have no prAmANic example.  The cases of
> Gajendra etc. are not the Advaitic Kaivalya but the other forms of mokSha
> like sArUpya.
>
> regards
> vs
>
> >
> >
> > >
> > > regards
> > > vs
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> >
> >
> > --
> > Regards
> >
> > -Venkatesh
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-- 
Regards

-Venkatesh