[Advaita-l] Omniscience ..........

[H S Chandramouli]

Namaste.

I want to clarify. The following question was raised in response to Sri
Bhaskarji's observations.

< In any case pl. provide the reference where Shankara says that sarvajnatva
etc. are the svabhAva of Brahman. >

The first sentence in my earlier mail is in response to this. The other
points were only only for completion of the idea.

Regards

<


On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 9:31 AM, H S Chandramouli
<hschandramouli at gmail.com>wrote:

> Namaste.
>
> Sarvajnatva etc  are  Brahman. Shruti pramana < Brahman is Anantam >
>
> Brahman is not Sarvajnatvam etc. Shruti pramana < Brahman is nirguna > .
>
> How are both these apparently contradictory statements both valid. Sri
> Bhagavatpada advances the Doctrine of Maya in support.
>
> Regards
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 3:41 PM, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com> wrote:
>>
>> > In fact Sri Bhaskar ji has highlighted before the idea of
>> > 'sarvajnatva, etc. are avidyAkalpita' by citing the famous statements
>> from
>> > the BSB 2.1.14.
>> >
>> > praNAms Sri Subbu prabhuji
>> > Hare Krishna
>> >
>> > I disparately need some time to clarify all these things from bhAshya
>> > perspective.  Anyway, here is the quick shot.  The bhAshya vAkya says
>> > something like : sarvajnatvAdi vyavahAraH upapadyate. Here the word
>> > vyavahAra is very important...In, upAdhi rahita Atman sarvajnatvAdi
>> > vyavahAra, which is avidyAkalpita is not admitted (neha nAnAsti
>> kiMchana)
>> > but it does not anyway mean to say that brahman is devoid of jnAnaM and
>> > shakti without the help of upAdhi, because shruti declaring that the
>> > parabrahman is satyaM, jnAnam and anantaM brahma (vide tai.up.) !!
>>
>>
>> Dear Sri Bhaskar ji,
>>
>> The above three are svarUpa lakShaNa where according to the bhashyam
>> jnAnam
>> is not 'sarvajnatvam' but 'jnapti = avabodhaH', objectless pure
>> consciousness.  Pl. read the bhashyam for this word in the Taittiriya
>> upanishad. Even in the Br.up. 'vijnAnam Anandam brahma' 3.9.28.7 Shankara
>> gives the meaning: vijnAnam = vijnaptiH.
>>
>> In fact in the very first post in this thread I had cited the bhashyam for
>> the Chandogya upanishad 8.1.5-
>>
>> संकल्पाः कामाश्च शुद्धसत्त्वोपाधिनिमित्ताः ईश्वरस्य, चित्रगुवत् । न स्वतः,
>> नेति नेतीत्युक्त्वात् ।
>>
>> [sankalpAh kAmAshcha shuddhasattvopAdhinimittAH Ishvarasya, chitraguvat.
>> na
>> svataH, neti neti ityuktatvAt']
>>
>> The translation of the above is:
>>
>> //Wills and desires of God are caused by the limiting adjunct (upAdhi) of
>> pure sattva, as a man is called 'Chitragu' when he is possessed of cows of
>> various colors. [A person having cows of various colors is called
>> 'chitragu', and the phrase does not mean that the person himself has many
>> colors.  Similarly in the case of Brahman, true wills and desires are not
>> the qualities of Brahman Itself, but caused the quality of sattva which is
>> Its upAdhi.]  But they do not inhere in Him, since the UpaniShad declares,
>> 'Not this, not this' (Br.2.3.6).//
>>
>> In the BSB 2.1.4 Shankara says:
>>
>> Br.sutra bhashyam 2.1.14:
>>
>> तदेवमविद्यात्मकोपाधिपरिच्छेदापेक्षमेवेश्वरस्येश्वरत्वं सर्वज्ञत्वं
>> सर्वशक्तित्वं च न परमार्थतो विद्यायापास्तसर्वोपाधिस्वरूप
>> आत्मनीशित्रीशितव्यसर्वज्ञत्वादिव्यवहार उपपद्यते ।
>>
>> //Thus, * only in the realm of the ignorance-created *upAdhis are
>> Ishwara's
>> Lordship, Omniscience and Omnipotence, and not in the pAramArthika realm
>> which implies that the ignorance-created upAdhis have been
>> negated/dispelled by True knowledge.  In this post-negation scenario
>> the ignorance-realm
>> of Ishwara-Ishitavya (ruler-ruled) duality and omniscience, etc. do not
>> have a place.//
>>
>>
>>
>> The above bhAshya vAkya  says only  that sOpAdhika Ishwara is vyavahArika
>> > satya and this vAkya in arambhaNAdhikaraNa is not there to propagate the
>> > idea that brahman without upAdhi is minus of his svabhAva i.e.
>> sarvajnatva
>> > and sarvashaktitva.
>> >
>>
>> In fact the above vAkyam says quite the opposite of what you claim:
>>
>> // In this post-negation scenario the ignorance-realm of Ishwara-Ishitavya
>> (ruler-ruled) duality and omniscience, etc. do not have a place.//  The
>> bhashya is explicitly saying that Brahman minus those upAdhis does not
>> give
>> room for the ruler-ruled, omniscience, etc.vyavahara.
>>
>> In both the bhashya passages I have cited above, Shankara consistently
>> maintains that 1. with upAdhi alone Brahman as Ishwara is omniscient,
>> satyasankalpa, etc. and 2. these are not the inherent nature of Brahman.
>>
>> Nowhere does Shankara say that the svabhAva of Brahman is sarvajnatva and
>> sarvashaktitva.  In fact these two are attributed to Brahman as Ishwara
>> only in relation to jiva-jagat sRShTi. Without jIva-jagat there can be no
>> omniscience, etc. to Ishwara for the simple reason that there is nothing
>> that Ishwara can do.
>>
>>  If it is svabhAva, the jIva who is to realize his identity with Brahman
>> (aham brahmAsmi, tattvamasi) will have to know that he is the omniscient
>> Ishwara.  Such a contingency is not allowed in Advaita.  It is only a
>> wrong
>> understanding on the part of the non-advaitins that results in their
>> criticism that Advaita equates the jiva with sarvajna Ishwara.  This
>> criticism cannot be escaped in the above proposition of yours.
>>
>> In any case pl. provide the reference where Shankara says that sarvajnatva
>> etc. are the svabhAva of Brahman.
>>
>> regards
>> vs
>>
>>
>>
>> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
>>
>> > bhaskar
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