[Advaita-l] svabhAva of Atman IS 'sarvajnatvaM'

[H S Chandramouli]

Namaste.

Reg

 < (a) brahman + mAyOpAdhi (shakti) = Ishwara

(b) Ishwara - mAyOpAdhi (shakti) = brahman.


(c) brahman with the mAyOpAdhi would become Ishwara and engage
himselfin creation.
> .

 My only addition to this would be as follows.

(a) brahman ( nirguna )  + brahman ( in the form of mayopadhi ) ( shakti )
= Iswara.

(b) brahman ( in the form of Iswara ) - brahman ( in the form of mayopadhi
) ( shakti ) = brahman ( nirguna ).

(c) brahman ( nirguna )  with brahman ( in the form of  mayopadhi )
 becomes Iswara and engage himself in creation.

Rest of your arguments perhaps supports only this contention. I am not sure
of course. You need to judge. As for me this helps in understanding the
bhashya portion more easily.

Regards


On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com> wrote:

> praNAms
> Hare krishna
>
> Kindly pardon me for the late response from my desk.  I said earlier, I
> was too busy at office and week end holidays as well ( had to attend
> couple vaidika functions like dattu sveekara and Sri rAma pattAbhishekaM
> as Ritvika).  Hence I was not able to concentrate on this issue
> appropriately.  But,  in the meanwhile,   many mails have been exchanged
> between Sri Subbu prabhuji and Sri Chandramouli prabhuji on this topic and
> surprisingly I have not seen any active  participation from other senior
> prabhuji-s like Sri Vidya prabhuji, Sri Vyas prabhuji, Sri Anand Hudli
> prabhuji and others.  Anyway, what I thought now is, instead of replying
> to earlier pending mails, let me share my thoughts in a separate mail with
> a different heading so that prabhuji-s would come to know what exactly I
> am trying to convey.
>
> 01.  Ishwara & his qualities are kevala vyAvahArika satya in advaita :
>
> Yes, I myself argued somany times here in this forum as well as at other
> places that according to advaita, Ishwara and  his qualities like
> omnipotence, omniscience etc. are mere vyAvahArika satya which is kevala
> avidyA kruta.  shankara clarifies his stand on Ishwara in sUtra bhAshya
> ArambhaNAdhikaraNa (2-1-14) which we have seen earlier so, no need for any
> elaboration on this point as we dont have any disagreement here.
>
> 02. Ishwara with mAya upAdhi has the qualities of omnipotence, omniscience
> etc. NOT brahman :
>
> Here we have some disagreement I believe.  Sri subbu prabhuji saying
> without 'sarva' (nAma rUpAtmaka jagat) we cannot attribute sarvajnatva to
> nitya shuddha buddha, mukta brahman which is ultimately nirguNa,
> niravayava and nirvikAra.  So, to prove Ishwara's sarvajnatva prior
> existence 'sarva' nAma rUpAtmaka jagat is must.  Without srushti of
> 'sarva' no question of sarvajnatva to Ishwara / brahma.  He continues to
> say that brahma with the help of mAyOpAdhi (shakti) would become Ishwara
> and this Ishwara is the jagatkAraNa and NOT the brahma which is nirguNa &
> nirvishesha.  In short the equation would be :
>
> (a) brahman + mAyOpAdhi (shakti) = Ishwara
> (b) Ishwara - mAyOpAdhi (shakti) = brahman.
> (c) brahman with the mAyOpAdhi would become Ishwara and engage himself in
> creation.
>
> According to him, (b) cannot have the qualities of Ishwara since  (b) is
> devoid of any upAdhi (nirupAdhika) and (a) is the ONLY cause of this jagat
> srushti since (a) has the mAya as his upAdhi and capable to do srushti
> kArya.  As a result,  ONLY Ishwara (mAyAshabAlita) who does the creation
> has the qualities / attributes like sarvajnatva and sarvashktitva and
> these attributes will not be suited to nirvishesha brahman.
>
> 03.  brahman (adviteeya) has the svabhAva of sarvajnatvaM :
>
> Here I would like to put across my thoughts.  Yes, shankara says in geeta
> bhAshya (for example 13-5, 13-9 etc.) mAya is Ishwara shakti, the potence
> of the lord.  But how can we attribute the lordhood in non-dual brahman??
> does it not require the distinction between the ruler (creator) and the
> ruled (creation) ?? But point to be noted here is when vedAnta accepts the
> vyAkruta jagat and its beeja rUpa (avyAkruta prakruti) it clearly says
> brahman is the only substratum of this appearance (srushti) and there is
> NO other source apart from brahman to this universe.  yatO vA imAni
> bhUtAni jAyante, yena jAtAni jeevanti, yatprayantyabhisaMvishanti,
> tadvigijnAsasva, tad brahma says tai, up., yaH sarvajnaH, sarvavidyasya
> jnAnamayaM tapaH tasmAdetadbrahma nAmarUpamannaM cha jAyate says mundaka
> shruti, sa EkshAmchakre, sa prANamasrujata says prashna.  From all these
> it is clear that brahman is the ONLY cause (both material as well as
> efficient) for this srushti. In AtmaH krute pariNAmAt sUtra bhAshya
> shankara clarifies there is not external sahakAri kAraNa for this creation
> and brahman is the ONLY creator and creation by quoting tai.up.
> tadAtmAnaggu svayamakuruta.  If we argue that it is not brahman, it is
> only Ishwara with a separate karaNa (instrument) called mayOpAdhi does the
> srushti kArya then it is as good as attributing paricchinnatva to Ishwara
> argues shankara in sUtra bhAshya.
>
> Now, coming back to brahman's sarvajnatvaM, sarvashaktitvaM etc. If we
> know that brahman is the ONLY adviteeya cause for this jagat we would know
> how inherent this shakti, jnAna of sarva to brahman.  Here the word
> 'sarva' is what created by brahma (tadAtmAnaggu svayamakuruta) by using
> his inherent svabhAva of sarvajna.  The jnA here is self, vyApaka is self
> in sarvavyApaka, shakti is self in sarvashaktitvaM.  The omniscient source
> should be brahman says shankara in the very first sUtra of vedAnta athAtho
> brahma jignAsa & second sUtra as well janmAdasya yatha.  From this it is
> very clear that as the consciousness is the nature of brahman, so also the
> shakti, jnAtvaM etc. are the very nature of brahman.  jnAna, shakti,
> anantatvaM etc. are very nature of brahman.  satyaM, jnAnam anantaM brahma
> says up.  Here jnAna denotes he has the jnAna of everything and with this
> jnAna only he 'first' thought let me become 'many' etc.  Though here jnAna
> etc. is not vAchya to describe brAhma we have to take it as 'lakshaNa' of
> brahma since it is the ONLY source to the jagat (abhinna nimittOpadAna
> kAraNa).  And this brahma is sarvajnA clearly says shankara in sUtra
> bhAshya (1-1-5) yasya hi sarvavishayAvabhAsana kshamaM jnAnaM nityamasti
> saH asarvajnaH iti vipratishiddhaM.  But question here arises is brahman
> is ekamevAdviteeyaM there is nothing second to him to  illumine and there
> is nothing second to him to 'know' so how can we attribute sarvajnatvaM
> etc. Here we have to note that when we say brahman has the sarvajnatvaM,
> sarvashaktivaM etc. we are not saying so by considering the 'act' of
> illumination, 'act' of creation etc.  Even when there is no object there
> to create or illuminate we brahman is inherently sarvajna.  Dont we say
> 'prakAshita sUrva' even if  there is nothing to get illumined by sUrya by
> taking prakAsha as his very nature??  dont we say mirror reflects even if
> nothing is there to reflect??  And in sushupti, have we ever say Atman is
> jnAna shUnya here since there is no object in that state??  He does not
> have any karaNa nor kArya there is nothing on par or superior to him etc.
> says up. na tasya kAryaM karaNaM cha vidyate, na
> tatsamashchAbhyadhikashcha drushyate (sv.up.) And it is in this context
> only shankara quotes those up. vAkya-s in IkshatAdhikaraNa (1-1-5) in
> sUtra bhAshya.  pashyanvai tanna pashyati na hi drashtuH drushtEviparilOpO
> vidyate avinAshitvAt clarifies shankara in bruhadAraNyaka (4.3.23).
> sarvavishesha rahitOpi jagatO mUlaM ityavagatatvAt astyeva (brahma) says
> in ka.up. bhAshya.  Likewise, shankara makes an interesting comment on
> svayaM jyOti svarUpa of Atman in prashana up. Here he clearly says from
> self luminous nature to final realization (mOksha) all transactions are
> through mind etc. upAdhi and hence it is in the sphere of avidyA but the
> very nature of svayaM jyOtitvaM can not be denied by any arrogant tArkika
> :  svayaMjyOtishtvAdi  'vyavahAraH amOkshAntaH sarvO avidyAvishaya eva
> mana AdyupAdhi janitaH..............svayaMjyOtishtvaM (tu) sudarpitEnApi
> tArkikeNa na vAraetuM shakyate..(prashna 4.5) Here also the vyavahAra word
> is very important to understand this context as I said earlier.
>
> And now finally we shall look  what exactly shankara says in Itareya
> upanishad.  The very first maNtra in this upanishad says : AtmA vA idaM
> ekaM evaM agra Aseet | na anyat kiMchana mishat | sa Ikshata lOkAnnu srujA
> iti || Here we have to study the bhAshya vAkya completely to know how
> brahman has the 'sarvajna' as his svabhAva.  Shankara without any
> ambiguity clarifies : saH sarvajna svAbhAvAt AtmA eka eva san Ikshata,
> nanu prAgutpatterakAyakaraNatvAt kathameekshitavAn??.........nAyaM dOshaH,
> sarvajnA svAbhAvyAt.  One should study whole bhAshya bhAga carefully to
> know how the Atman which is ekam eva adviteeyaM has the svabhAva of
> sarvajnatvaM.
>
> Since this mail has already become very lengthy I would like to stop here
> with this short note.  Though vyavahAra of Ishwara and his qualities have
> been negated in ultimate stage, brahman has always have the inherent
> qualities of sarvajnatva and sarvashaktitva etc. These inherent qualities
> of paramAtma would be projected through upAdhi when we talk about
> sOpAdhika apara / kArya brahma.
>
> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
> bhaskar
>
> PS : Please bear with any spelling mistakes and other errors as I typed
> this in a hurry in the middle of year end auditing busy schedule.
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