[Advaita-l] Omniscience ..........

[H S Chandramouli]

H S Chandramouli

Namaste.

I am not saying sarvajnatvam etc is brahman's svarupa lakshana. I am saying
sarvajnatvam IS brahman itself. But brahman is not sarvajnatvam etc.
Mandukya 2nd verse < sarvagm hyetad brahma >. Can this not be taken as
another shruti pramana for sarvajnatvam being brahman. But I repeat brahman
is NOT sarvajnatvam etc. The reason being the two, brahman and sarvajnatvam
are two different levels of reality and hence both the seemingly
contradictory statements could be reconciled. Svabhava also stands on par
with sarvajnatvam etc in this regard due to it being vikara.

Regards


On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 12:30 PM, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 9:31 AM, H S Chandramouli
> <hschandramouli at gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > Namaste.
> >
> > Sarvajnatva etc  are  Brahman. Shruti pramana < Brahman is Anantam >
> >
>
> Anantam is the svarUpalakShaNa of Brahman, along with satyam, jnAnam in the
> Taittiriyopanishad.  It means: trividha pariccheda shUnyam: desha, kAla,
> vastu pariccheda is not there for Brahman.  If sarvajnatvam is held to be
> Brahman's svarUpa lakshanam, then the jiva who is alpajna will / can be
> held against Brahman's vijAteeyabheda rahitatva.  To explain, Brahman is
> vijAteeya bheda rahitam/ there is no entity that is un-brahman,
> not-brahman.  jiva will qualify to be an example for there existing
> something 'other' than brahman.  That is why the upAdhi-s sarvajnatvam and
> alpajnatvam of both ishwara and jiva are denied to arrive at the
> adviteeyatvam of Brahman.
>
> regards
> vs
>
> >
> > Brahman is not Sarvajnatvam etc. Shruti pramana < Brahman is nirguna > .
> >
> > How are both these apparently contradictory statements both valid. Sri
> > Bhagavatpada advances the Doctrine of Maya in support.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 3:41 PM, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > In fact Sri Bhaskar ji has highlighted before the idea of
> > > > 'sarvajnatva, etc. are avidyAkalpita' by citing the famous statements
> > > from
> > > > the BSB 2.1.14.
> > > >
> > > > praNAms Sri Subbu prabhuji
> > > > Hare Krishna
> > > >
> > > > I disparately need some time to clarify all these things from bhAshya
> > > > perspective.  Anyway, here is the quick shot.  The bhAshya vAkya says
> > > > something like : sarvajnatvAdi vyavahAraH upapadyate. Here the word
> > > > vyavahAra is very important...In, upAdhi rahita Atman sarvajnatvAdi
> > > > vyavahAra, which is avidyAkalpita is not admitted (neha nAnAsti
> > kiMchana)
> > > > but it does not anyway mean to say that brahman is devoid of jnAnaM
> and
> > > > shakti without the help of upAdhi, because shruti declaring that the
> > > > parabrahman is satyaM, jnAnam and anantaM brahma (vide tai.up.) !!
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Sri Bhaskar ji,
> > >
> > > The above three are svarUpa lakShaNa where according to the bhashyam
> > jnAnam
> > > is not 'sarvajnatvam' but 'jnapti = avabodhaH', objectless pure
> > > consciousness.  Pl. read the bhashyam for this word in the Taittiriya
> > > upanishad. Even in the Br.up. 'vijnAnam Anandam brahma' 3.9.28.7
> Shankara
> > > gives the meaning: vijnAnam = vijnaptiH.
> > >
> > > In fact in the very first post in this thread I had cited the bhashyam
> > for
> > > the Chandogya upanishad 8.1.5-
> > >
> > > संकल्पाः कामाश्च शुद्धसत्त्वोपाधिनिमित्ताः ईश्वरस्य, चित्रगुवत् । न
> > स्वतः,
> > > नेति नेतीत्युक्त्वात् ।
> > >
> > > [sankalpAh kAmAshcha shuddhasattvopAdhinimittAH Ishvarasya,
> chitraguvat.
> > na
> > > svataH, neti neti ityuktatvAt']
> > >
> > > The translation of the above is:
> > >
> > > //Wills and desires of God are caused by the limiting adjunct (upAdhi)
> of
> > > pure sattva, as a man is called 'Chitragu' when he is possessed of cows
> > of
> > > various colors. [A person having cows of various colors is called
> > > 'chitragu', and the phrase does not mean that the person himself has
> many
> > > colors.  Similarly in the case of Brahman, true wills and desires are
> not
> > > the qualities of Brahman Itself, but caused the quality of sattva which
> > is
> > > Its upAdhi.]  But they do not inhere in Him, since the UpaniShad
> > declares,
> > > 'Not this, not this' (Br.2.3.6).//
> > >
> > > In the BSB 2.1.4 Shankara says:
> > >
> > > Br.sutra bhashyam 2.1.14:
> > >
> > > तदेवमविद्यात्मकोपाधिपरिच्छेदापेक्षमेवेश्वरस्येश्वरत्वं सर्वज्ञत्वं
> > > सर्वशक्तित्वं च न परमार्थतो विद्यायापास्तसर्वोपाधिस्वरूप
> > > आत्मनीशित्रीशितव्यसर्वज्ञत्वादिव्यवहार उपपद्यते ।
> > >
> > > //Thus, * only in the realm of the ignorance-created *upAdhis are
> > Ishwara's
> > > Lordship, Omniscience and Omnipotence, and not in the pAramArthika
> realm
> > > which implies that the ignorance-created upAdhis have been
> > > negated/dispelled by True knowledge.  In this post-negation scenario
> > > the ignorance-realm
> > > of Ishwara-Ishitavya (ruler-ruled) duality and omniscience, etc. do not
> > > have a place.//
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The above bhAshya vAkya  says only  that sOpAdhika Ishwara is
> vyavahArika
> > > > satya and this vAkya in arambhaNAdhikaraNa is not there to propagate
> > the
> > > > idea that brahman without upAdhi is minus of his svabhAva i.e.
> > > sarvajnatva
> > > > and sarvashaktitva.
> > > >
> > >
> > > In fact the above vAkyam says quite the opposite of what you claim:
> > >
> > > // In this post-negation scenario the ignorance-realm of
> > Ishwara-Ishitavya
> > > (ruler-ruled) duality and omniscience, etc. do not have a place.//  The
> > > bhashya is explicitly saying that Brahman minus those upAdhis does not
> > give
> > > room for the ruler-ruled, omniscience, etc.vyavahara.
> > >
> > > In both the bhashya passages I have cited above, Shankara consistently
> > > maintains that 1. with upAdhi alone Brahman as Ishwara is omniscient,
> > > satyasankalpa, etc. and 2. these are not the inherent nature of
> Brahman.
> > >
> > > Nowhere does Shankara say that the svabhAva of Brahman is sarvajnatva
> and
> > > sarvashaktitva.  In fact these two are attributed to Brahman as Ishwara
> > > only in relation to jiva-jagat sRShTi. Without jIva-jagat there can be
> no
> > > omniscience, etc. to Ishwara for the simple reason that there is
> nothing
> > > that Ishwara can do.
> > >
> > >  If it is svabhAva, the jIva who is to realize his identity with
> Brahman
> > > (aham brahmAsmi, tattvamasi) will have to know that he is the
> omniscient
> > > Ishwara.  Such a contingency is not allowed in Advaita.  It is only a
> > wrong
> > > understanding on the part of the non-advaitins that results in their
> > > criticism that Advaita equates the jiva with sarvajna Ishwara.  This
> > > criticism cannot be escaped in the above proposition of yours.
> > >
> > > In any case pl. provide the reference where Shankara says that
> > sarvajnatva
> > > etc. are the svabhAva of Brahman.
> > >
> > > regards
> > > vs
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
> > >
> > > > bhaskar
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> > > > http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe or change your options:
> > > > http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
> > > >
> > > > For assistance, contact:
> > > > listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> > > http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe or change your options:
> > > http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
> > >
> > > For assistance, contact:
> > > listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> > http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
> >
> > To unsubscribe or change your options:
> > http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
> >
> > For assistance, contact:
> > listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>
> To unsubscribe or change your options:
> http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>
> For assistance, contact:
> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>