[Advaita-l] FW: Creation & Creator

[Bhaskar YR via Advaita-l]

praNAms
Hare Krishna

The below mail not get posted y’day to the group…Hence resending. Pls. ignore if already received.

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
bhaskar

From: Bhaskar YR
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2014 6:01 PM
To: 'H S Chandramouli'
Subject: RE: [Advaita-l] Creation & Creator

praNAms Sri Chandramouli prabhuji
Hare Krishna
 Except  for the  apAntaratamas  reincarnating as vyAsa etc. , the rest of your post refers to Jivanmukta state .

Ø     This example given by shankara, would imply that there are anatha jeeva-s and some jeeva-s would get svarUpa jnAna and even after shedding their previous bhautika shareera, remain in some place with their jeeva (individuality) intact.  And if paramAtma wishes and if paramAtma orders to go back to bhUlOka, they would come back to teach brahma jnAna to the mortals like us.  This would clearly shows that there will be asaMkhyAta jeeva-s and out of those asaMkhyAta jeeva-s some would have special privilege to come back to matsya lOka for the uddhAra of other ajnAni jeeva-s.
From the viewpoint of others ( other than the Jivanmukta ) it does appear that the same Jiva continues to function. However from the point of view of the Jivanmukta himself , the assertion by the Shrutis that  Kartrtva ceases only means the individual “ waviness “ is lost.

Ø     Yes, it will be only absence of  katrutva, bhOktruva bhAva or bAdha of triputi vyAvahAra and it is not an absolute annihilation of jeeva.  As per the analogy, the wave would not go anywhere after realizing that it is only WATER..what goes in that wave is the notion that it is only wave having the separate existence apart from water.
The physical body then continues to function driven by prarabdha/vasanas  which means driven by the mind itself which has been trained to function in a particular manner due to prior sadhanas.

Ø     My question is rather doubt is who can that particular mind can function without the association of that parichinna chaitanya which is restricted to that particular BMI??  jnAni, after realization no more parichinna, he is akhada only..under these circumstance how can we say ‘HIS’ BMI continue to function in a particular manner due to prArabdha or otherwise??
I understand it to be like a Robot let loose after due programming ( no doubt a crude analogy , but helps me in understanding ) .  That is how the “ person “ can continue teaching others while being devoid of a sense of kattrtva.

Ø     As I said above, if we are talking about mere katrutva / bhOktrutva abhAva in the jnAni then we donot have any disagreements..And continuation of teaching with the absence of katrutva would imply that there is a jeeva without katrutva, and it is teaching the knowledge of that akrutatvaM to another jeeva, which is still suffering from that katrutva & bhOktrutva bhAva!!  And more importantly,  problem comes only when we say jnAna would bring complete annihilation of this particular jeeva, the jeeva that is realized that it is akatru, abhOktru…jnAna neither creates anything afresh nor has the capacity to destroy anything that already exists.  It only reminds us what is there in reality.  jnApakaM hi shAstraM na tu kArakaM says shankara.
Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
bhaskar


This practically answers all your points except apAntaratamas which perhaps we could consider separately.

Regards

On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com<mailto:bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com>> wrote:
 praNAms Sri Chandramouli prabhuji
Hare Krishna
I forgot to consider this analogy in my response. In this analogy Realization would not consist in the wave realizing its nature /swarupa as WATER while it is still a wave.

>     If there is absolute absence of (individual) waviness, how can one realized wave can teach the knowledge of ‘WATER’ to another wave??
Realization would be what happens to it when it reaches the shore and recedes back into the ocean. It loses its individuality/distinctness from the ocean which in any case it always was.

>     So, there is no question of ‘alive’ wave which is capable of teaching the knowledge of ONLY WATER to other yet to be realized waves!!??  IOW, no alive absolute brahma jnAni we can find to have the teaching of brahma jnAna.
There is no wave after that ( the particular wave under consideration ) . The Jiva does not “ Realize “ while still a Jiva, the  Jivahood / sense of being a Jiva resolves into Brahman indistinguishably which is called Realization. There is no Jiva after that ( the particular Jiva under consideration ) . The state can perhaps only be intuitively understood and may not be capable of being defined further . At least that is what I think.

>  I agree with you that we cannot grab this realization through vAk & manas…But if we study the words of realized Acharya-s, it seems that ‘waviness’ would continue to remain even after realizing that that particular wave is nothing but water and even after shedding this individuality, sometimes as per the order of WATER (paramAtma) these subsided waves would comeback again to WATER as ‘waves’ to teach the other waves that they are nothing but water…(apAntaratama-s reincarnating as vyAsa etc.).  From this is there any problem in saying individuality remain but not real and what is real is ONLY WATER ??
Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
bhaskar