[Advaita-l] BhAgavatam : The objective world is illusory

[Bhaskar YR]

Pranams Sri Bhaskar Prabhu ji (BP)

praNAms Sri Sujal prabhuji
Hare Krishna

>  BP is the anvartha nAma for me suits my health condition...now a days, 
my blood pressure is on little bit higher side :-))


*BP: The rose example is given to drive home the point that rose is
always rose (kArya in kAraNa rUpa) without any attributes, attributes have
been superimposed by the senses which grasped the 'rose'...( hope I dont
have to define what is ROSE in this context :-))*


As I understand, (I am no authority), in the e.g. of ROSE, the important
thing is SELF and not ROSE around which the story revolves and finally
terminates. ROSE is not important. Since we all are in duality, so 
attempts
are made to explain in dual tone.

>  Yes, you are right, as said earlier, the rose example is given to say 
that rose does not have separate existence apart from SELF..Infact, there 
exists nothing apart from self..hence we see the shruti vakAkya-s like 
sarvaM khalvidaM brahma, satyanchAnrutancha satyamabhavat yadidaM kiMcha 
etc.  So, in the context of creation (sorry to repeat this somany times) 
the kArya is essential to understand the ekatva of kAraNa and its nature 
'prajnAna ghana'. 


The teachings is to learn to discriminate, separate milk from water by
being a witness (mind, consciousness is blended with this world via senses
via body). So the attention is directed towards SELF or in simple words,
mind is taught to turn inward i.e become introvert.

>  Yes, we should disassociate ourselves from 'external' world and 
concentrate & channelize our mind inwards to know what is there outside is 
nothing but what is already there inside :-))



I admit that not all e.g.s are perfect and not all concepts can be
explained via a single e.g.

>  Yes prabhuji, you are right, hence examples should be taken according 
to the context and understood accordingly.



They are given so that one makes an attempt to become introvert. Since it
is by own ability that one thinks, discriminates and withdraws senses,
hence a certain level of purity and introvertness is required to actually
practice advaita. Doing dOSa darSana is the first step

>  yes, the other name for this is nityAnitya vastu viveka.


*BP: *


*After the dawn of knowledge the jnAni would see everything as brahman!!
 pUrvaM avidyayA asarva Aseet punaH vidyayA avidyApanaye
'sarvO' bhavati...It does not mean after jnAna, jnAni would become table,
computer, keyboard, etc.  he would see everything in its sva-svarUpa
that is nothing but brahman.*

SU prabhuji :

Not all come back from nirvikalp Samadhi. Sri Ramakrishna says that after
21 days link with body drops permanently and body falls apart like a dry
leaf detached from tree (sorry for bad translation, but the village like
language has more beauty which I fail to translate properly)

BP :

advaita jnAna as taught by shankara is not restricted to any particular 
avasthA.  Hence, I dont think here linking the NS experience with advaita 
paramArtha jnAna is necessary. 

SU prabhuji :

Also when the vision occurs of this world, then the world looks like
Brahman, because mind of Jnani is Brahman itself. But what exactly the
vision is only Jnani knows. Kanchi Paramacharya says that the world is 
Self.

BP :

Yes prabhuji, world is self but self is NOT world since self is 
nirvishesha. 


SU prabhuji :

The world here refers to the Self only, not the 3 dimensional world that 
we
see. 

BP :

the 3 D world is avidyA kruta but world as it is in its sadrUpa is self 
only. 

SU prabhuji :

So my question is, mAyA as mithyA has to be realized. How? And until you
realize what what is your opinion about this world?

BP :

The term mAya needs to be understood according to the context of usage of 
this term.  mAyA is anirvachaneeya, it is avidyAkalpita, it is 
brahmAbhinna and it is Ishwara shakti also at some places. 


Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
bhaskar