[Advaita-l] Jiiva at Satya Loka - Will He or Won't He come back

[Sunil Bhattacharjya via Advaita-l]

Non-return from the Brahmaloka is not guaranteed for those who are unable to dissolve their ego. It is said that to understand what is said in the Veda (and obviously that also applies to Vedanta) one has to read the fifth Veda. From the fifth Veda we learn that Jay and Vijay returned in the form of Ravana and Kumbhakarna because of their ego. However in the Bhagavatam the Lord says that he gives the Jnana (obviously the highest jnana of Ekatva or Advaita) to the ardent devotees (who surrenders to the Lord and are with the least ego) and, then of course, one (such a devotee) does not have to return to the world. 

Regards,
Sunil KB



On Thursday, May 29, 2014 8:45 AM, H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
 


Sri Subrahmanianji wrote

<< In the commentary to the BSB for the very last sutra, the Ratnaprabhā
clarifies:

For those who have gone to brahmaloka after performing panchāgnividyā,
ashvamedha, firm brahmacharyā, etc. non-return from that loka is not
guaranteed since they cannot be said to certainly attain nirguṇa
brahmavidyā in brahmaloka. >>

This position appears to be contradictory to the Bhashyam itself. In the
preceding sutra 4-4-21 , the following appears in the Bhashya ( translation
by Swami Gambhirananda )

<< Opponent ; From such a point of view, the powers will have degrees and
so they will be subjecte to termination . Hence these liberated souls will
be liable to returning to this world. >>

Reply to this question is by way of the last sutra mentioned above by Sri
Subrahmanianji. The bhashya for the last sutra goes like this. (
Translation by Swami G ) .

<< Those who proceed along the path of the gods , associated with the
nerves and rays of the sun and divided into the stages of light etc., reach
the world of Brahman , as described in the scriptures thus ; In the world
of Brahman , existing in the third order of heaven ( ie. Brahmaloka )
counted from this earth , there exist two seas called Ara and Nya , where
is to be found a lake full of delightful food , where exists a banian tree
exuding ambrosia , where is to be seen a city of Brahman called Aparajita (
the unconquered ) , and where stands a golden palace made by the Lord
himself ( Ch. VIII , v. 3 ) . That world is also spoken of variously in the
*mantra* and eulogistic ( *arthavada* ) portions. After reaching there ,
they do not return as others do from the world of Moon when deprived of
their enjoyment ( ie. Having run through their quota of experience >>

The Bhashyam concludes << But nonreturn stands as an accomplished fact for
those from whom the darkness ( of ignorance ) has been completely removed
as a result of their full illumination and who therefore cling to that
liberation as their highest goal which exists ever as an already
established fact. The nonreturn of those who take refuge in the qualified
Brahman becomes a fact only because they too have that unconditional
Brahman as their ultimate resort >> .

It is thus seen that nonreturn from Brahmaloka is guaranteed to all the
aspirants who have reached that loka. I presume my understanding of the
Bhashya is correct. Is Ratnaprabha considered to be consistent with the
Bhashya in all respects or does it represent independent views which could
also contradict the Bhashya as it considers necessary? Are there any other
commentaries on the Bhashya which differ fro Ratnaprabha?  Kindly clarify.

Regards


On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 10:13 AM, V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> In the commentary to the BSB for the very last sutra, the Ratnaprabhā
> clarifies:
>
> For those who have gone to brahmaloka after performing panchāgnividyā,
> ashvamedha, firm brahmacharyā, etc. non-return from that loka is not
> guaranteed since they cannot be said to certainly attain nirguṇa
> brahmavidyā in brahmaloka.
>
> On the other hand, for those who have reached brahmaloka by performing
> īśwaropāsana like daharavidyā, since they can get brahmavidyā there,
> non-return to samsāra is certain.
>
> This can be seen in the above commentary.
>
> regards
> subrahmanian.v
>
>
> On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 2:26 AM, kuntimaddi sadananda via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > PraNAms.  No, it is not I who made that statement. . Please check again.
> >
> > The question I posed was not for somebody going to Satya loka - but about
> > the Viraj himself -Bri. Up says - he was alone and found that he was
> alone.
> > He was afraid and thinking there there is no one else, and then reasoned
> > himself that there is no reason for him to be afraid since there is no
> one
> > else to be afraid of . Hence the scripture makes the famous statement -
> > dviteeyaadvai bhayam bhavati.
> >
> > Scriptures does not say here directly that knowing that I am alone is the
> > knowledge of aham bhramaasmi.
> >
> > Shankara Bhaashya seems to indicate that by self-analysis he has gained
> > the knowledge that I am Brahman. And then Shankara poses a purvapaksha -
> > Who taught Viraj that jnaanam, since there was no teacher to teach Viraj?
> >
> > Even though the purvapaksha was provided, I found that the extensive
> > analysis by Shankara does not address the question posed in the
> > purvapaksha. Hence I was seeking clarification if any one can address
> that.
> > I also mentioned in the same situation in Bhagavatam, Iswara himself
> comes
> > in the form of Hamsa and teaches - that is Hamsa Geeta. This is part of
> > Uddhava Geeta.
> >
> > This does not pertain to krama mukti of jiivas going there that the
> > questionnaire posed here - By their upaasana they do not become Viraj but
> > only go upto Satya loka. To become Viraj one has to extensive upaasanas
> > outlined in Bri. Up or in Tai. Up. In krama mukti the karmas take jiiva
> up
> > to Satya loka and there they have to gain the knowledge  by attending
> > Brahmaji's classes - he takes one class in every 32 years or so, as per
> > Chandogya. Up. Jiiva has to return back if he does not attend Vedanta
> > classes there - aabrahma bhuvanAlokAH punarAvarti nOrujna, says Krishna
> in
> > 8th Ch.
> >
> > My comments were unrelated to the discussion here.
> >
> > Hari Om!
> > Sadananda
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------
> > On Wed, 5/28/14, Jaldhar H. Vyas via Advaita-l <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
> >  Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Jiiva at Satya Loka - Will He or Won't He come
> > back
> >  To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> >  Date: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 2:31 PM
> >
> >  On Tue, 27 May 2014,
> >  ramesh badisa via Advaita-l wrote:
> >
> >  > ""I do not think that
> >  > Sagunopaasaka can gain nirguna brahman by
> >  analyzing
> >  >>
> >  >
> >  himself has been endorsed anywhere. Even in krama mukti, the
> >  jiiva in
> >  >> satya loka has to be
> >  exposed to the teaching of
> >  > mahaavaakya
> >  to gain
> >  >>
> >  >
> >  mokha; otherwise he returns back to karma bhuumi- that is
> >  my
> >  >>
> >  >
> >  understanding."" -sri Jaldhar’s reply (dated May
> >  19 or 20, 2014)
> >  >
> >
> >  Actually that was Sadananda.  I agree with you
> >  that the jiva who attains
> >  satyaloka does
> >  not return to samsara.
> >
> >  --
> >
> >  Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
> >  _______________________________________________
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