[Advaita-l] Realization through Mind

[V Subrahmanian]

Here is a link to an old post:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/advaitin/conversations/messages/55766

One can see there a gist of a paper presented by Vidwan Mani Dravid
Sastriṇaḥ on the positions of the Bhāmati and the Vivaraṇa.

regards
subrahmanian.v

On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 2:18 PM, H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Dear Sri Anand Hudliji,
>
>
>  You wrote Though both the mind and shabda are accepted by the two
> schools, the debate here is about which of the two - mind or shabda, yields
> direct realization. The BhAmatI holds that shabda can only give us indirect
> realization.
>
>
>  In other words Bhamati holds that only the mind gives us direct
> realization. According to the Bhashya of Sri Bhagavatpada shabda leads to
> realization in respect of svaprakasha Atman/Brahman by removing the
> obstruction/ajnana which is hindering such realization. Realization is due
> to the svaprakasha nature of Atman/Brahman. But when it is held , as in
> Bhamati , that mind gives us direct realization, is it not tantamount to
> saying that mind itself directly reveals Atman/Brahman leading to direct
> realization. It is not by way of removing the obstruction/ ajnana to such
> realization. Is this not contrary to the Bhashya? Does Bhamati deviate from
> the Bhashya in this regard ? Please clarify.
>
>
>  Regards
>
>
>  Chandramouli
>
> On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 10:26 AM, Anand Hudli via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > Shri Chandramouli wrote:
> >
> > >Nididhyasana is to be undertaken only by such a su-samskruta mind to
> > >achieve the results.
> >
> > Nice summary of the topic. I would like to add a few points based on the
> > differences between the two main schools of advaita - the BhAmati and the
> > VivaraNa.
> >
> > It must be clarified that both schools recognize the importance of
> Vedanta
> > texts such as "tattvamasi" in the realization of Brahman. However, the
> > Vivarana school holds that VedAnta vAkyas such as tattvamasi will give
> rise
> > to direct realization (aparokSha pramiti) of Brahman. Says the Vivarana:
> > evaM cha taM aupaniShadamiti taddhitapratyayena brahmaavagatihetutvaM
> > shabdasya darshitam upapannaM bhavati aparokShaavagatereva
> > samyagavagatitvaaditi. By the VedAnta text,  aupaniShadaM puruShaM
> > pRcchAmi, the taddhita affix applied to upanishad indicates that shabda
> > (upanishad) is the cause of Brahman realization and that realization is
> > direct (not indirect), since only direct realization can be true
> > realization. Though both the mind and shabda are accepted by the two
> > schools, the debate here is about which of the two - mind or shabda,
> yields
> > direct realization. The BhAmatI holds that shabda can only give us
> indirect
> > realization.
> >
> > tadeva vAkyamAtrasyArthe .api na drAgityeva pratyaya ityuktam. Therefore,
> > it is said that one cannot immediately grasp the meaning of a text.
> > According to vAcaspati, it is difficult to understand the meaning of the
> > words and the sentence in the case of texts such as "tattvamasi". In
> fact,
> > it takes a long time to do so. (vilambena).
> >
> > And tatkiM iyameva vAkyajanitA pratItirAtmani tathA cha na
> >  sAkShAtpratItirAtmani? ... vAkyArthapratItiH sAkShAtkArasya pUrvarUpam -
> > bhAmatI . Why (stop) at the idea generated by the (vedAnta) text, which
> is
> > not a direct realization of the Self? This idea (generated by) the
> meaning
> > of the (vedAnta) text is a preliminary form of (or a precursor to) direct
> > realization. So then how does one directly realize the Self? After
> hearing
> > and reflecting on the meaning of the text, meditating on it for a long
> > time, without interruption, and with attention, one directly realizes
> > Brahman.  vAkyArthashravaNamananottarakAlA visheShaNatrayavatI bhAvanA
> > brahmasAkShAtkArAya kalpate iti.
> >
> > In contrast, the VivaraNa school holds that VedAnta texts such as
> > "tattvamasi" can directly give rise to Brahman realization. An example
> > cited here is that of "the tenth man." There were ten people who crossed
> a
> > river. They wanted to count themselves and ensure nobody was lost. The
> > person who counted was making a mistake of not counting himself, coming
> up
> > short. An observer told him: "dashamastvamasi". You are the tenth man.
> Just
> > by hearing these words,  the tenth man realized that he was the missing
> > person, the tenth one. In this case, the Apta-vAkya is alone sufficient
> to
> > cause the realization. And this realization is direct and immediate. So
> if
> > shabda (shravaNa) can give rise to direct Brahman realization, why do we
> > need  manana and nididhyAsana?
> >
> > VivaraNa:
> > yadA tu punaH shabdAdeva prathamam aparokSha-anubhavaphalaM vijnAnam
> > utpannaM bhrantivikShepasaMskAra-khacita-antaHkaraNadoshAdartho.api
> > parokSha-anubhava-phalatayA vibhrAntyA avatiShThate. tadA
> > manana-nididhyAsane
> >
> >
> cittagatavikShepAdi-doSha-pratibandha-nirAsena-aparokSha-phala-pratiShTha-hetutayA
> > pramANasya phalopakAri-angamiti na virudhyate|
> >
> > While shabda (shravaNa) alone gives rise to knowledge which results in
> the
> > direct experience (of the Self), due to the defects that are the
> > impressions of illusions in the mind, even this direct experience is
> > apprehended as an indirect experience. In this case, manana and
> > nididhyAsana will act as helping (auxiliary) factors of the shabda
> pramANa
> > or shravaNa to eliminate these defects which are obstacles (to direct
> > experience) and thereby cause the direct experience to be established.
> > There is no contradiction.
> >
> > A natural question to ask would be: Is Brahman realization possible by
> > hearing the VedAnta text, such as tattvamasi, just once? Considering the
> > BhAmatI's position, it would seem that VAcaspati is unwilling to accept
> > that this is possible, since he holds that a long process of shravaNa,
> > manana, and nididhyAsana is necessary. The VivaraNa, on the other hand,
> > would have no problems in accepting this possibility, because Brahman
> > realization does happen directly through the shabda pramANa, and if there
> > are no obstacles due to  saMskAras in the mind, then such realization
> takes
> > place upon hearing the text just once. Shankara also agrees that such
> > realization is possible: bhavet AvRtti AnarthakyaM taM prati yaH
> tattvamasi
> > iti sakRt uktameva brahmAtmatvaM anubhavituM shaknuyAt. (B.S.B. 4.1.2)
> >
> > But the BhAmatIkAra has noted the BhAShyakAra's comment and has offered
> an
> > explanation that reconciles his own view with that of the BhAShyakAra:
> > sakRduktameviti| shrutvA matvA kShaNamavadhAya prAgbhavIya-abhyAsa
> > jAtasaMskArAt ityarthaH. By "realization by hearing only once", the
> > BhAShyakAra means that such realization happens by hearing and reflecting
> > for an instant and from the impressions of repeated practice done in
> > previous lives. So in the case of the person who realizes the Self by
> > hearing the text only once, he must have practiced shravaNa, manana, and
> > nididhyAsana in previous lives.
> >
> > Anand
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