[Advaita-l] Dvaita Vaada - Vadiraja Teertha's Nyayaratnavali Slokas 55 - 66 Soham Vs Dasoham
vmurthy36 at gmail.com
Sat Apr 11 01:47:57 CDT 2015
In the end when Paundraka was killed by Krishna he got Saaroopya with
Krishna and went to Vaikuntha. He got same form like Vishnu.
Question - How is this Saaroopya Mukti different than direct Mukti?
Did he get final Mukti like a Jnani?
But at least he got Mukti like other Dvaitis want. They don't want
Nirguna Mukti but they want to live and enjoy in Vaikuntha.
On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 9:25 PM, V Subrahmanian
<v.subrahmanian at gmail.com> wrote:
> That Sri Vādirāja Tirtha brought in the example of Paundraka Vāsudeva
> itself shows how ignorant he was about Advaita. No advaitin would dress up
> like any god and claim to be that god and attempt to make people believe so.
> In fact many advaita jnanins were sannyasins who donned the kāṣāya and led a
> mendicant's life. Sri Vādirāja did not know what it means in Advaita to
> realize 'I am Brahman'. That he sought to compare the saguna deity with
> form and attributes itself shows his poor understanding.
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 12:35 PM, Venkatesh Murthy via Advaita-l
> <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>> Commentary - Vaadiraaja has decided to bowl a bouncer. He is angry to
>> see two consecutive Sixes hit. He starts running to bowl the next
>> Nyayaratnavali Slokas 55 to 66 are attacking the Advaiti Tattva
>> So'ham. But Vaadiraaja has not understood this So'ham Tattva at all.
>> He is referring to the Paundraka story in Bhagavata Purana to support
>> his attack.
>> त्वं वासुदेवो भगवानवतीर्णो जगत्पति: ।
>> इति प्रस्तोभितो बालैर्मेने स्वात्मानमच्युतम् ॥
>> कदाचित् पौण्ड्रको नाम काशिराजः प्रतापवान् ।
>> वासुदेवोऽहमित्यज्ञो दूतं कृष्णाय प्राहिणोत् ॥
>> The powerful King Paundraka of Kashi was praised by fools saying 'You
>> are the God Vaasudeva the Lord of the World descended to earth ' and
>> he thought he himself was Krishna. That ignorant King thinking 'I am
>> Vaasudeva' once sent a messenger to Krishna.
>> Advaiti comment - Bhagavata is saying Paundraka was King of Karusha.
>> King of Kashi was Paundraka's friend.
>> कत्थनं तदुपाकर्ण्य पौण्ड्रकस्याल्पमेधसः ।
>> उच्चकैरुग्रसेनाद्याः सभ्याः प्रजहसुस्तदा ॥
>> Hearing the boasting of the foolish Paundraka 'I am Vaasudeva'
>> Ugrasena and others in Dwaraka assembly laughed loudly.
>> इति भागवते स्पष्टं सोऽह्ंभावो ह्यनेकधा ।
>> यतो विनिन्दितस्तस्मात् को वा तं भावयेद्बुधः ॥
>> This 'I am He' So'ham principle is many times degraded clearly in
>> Bhagavata Purana. Which wise man will encourage it?
>> अच्युतोऽहमनन्तोऽहं गोविन्दोऽहं सनातनः ।
>> इति मायावादिनां या भावना नित्यकर्मणि ॥
>> अहमेवाच्युतोऽस्मीति वासुदेवोऽहमित्यपि ।
>> या भावना पौण्ड्रकस्य को विशेषोऽनयोर्वद ॥
>> 'I am the Eternal Acyuta, Ananta, Govinda' this feeling in obligatory
>> acts - Nitya Karma of the Maayaavaadis and the Paundraka's feeling 'I
>> am Acyuta. I am Vaasudeva'. Tell me what is the difference between
>> वचनं किल तज्ज्ञानं बालानां भाषितं किल ।
>> दैत्यः किलाधिकारी च यः कृत्रिमचतुर्भुजः ॥
>> रथस्थहेमगरुडारूढो यश्च पथि व्रजेत् ।
>> अज्ञोऽल्पमेधाः स किल कत्थनं किल तद्वचः ॥
>> That knowledge 'I am Vaasudeva' is surely the words of ignorant
>> children. That demon Paundraka the Impersonator with fake four-hands
>> was riding his chariot with golden Garuda in the streets. He was an
>> ignorant fool surely. His words were boasts surely.
>> सभ्यानामपहास्यं चेत्याह निन्दां पदे पदे ।
>> यदि तत्वज्ञानमिदं तर्हि निन्दां शुकोऽसकृत् ॥
>> कुतश्चकार योगीन्द्रो महासंसदि योगिनाम् ।
>> ज्ञानिनोऽस्य शिरः कस्माच्छ्रुतदेवगृहातिथि: ॥
>> चिच्छेद भगवान्कृष्णः कुपितो दूतवार्तया ।
>> शुकस्य सूत्रकारस्य राज्ञो राजसभासदाम् ॥
>> कृष्णस्य चाप्रियं ज्ञानं मिथ्याज्ञानं न संशयः ।
>> दासोऽहमिति यज्ज्ञानं तत्वज्ञानं तदेव तत् ॥
>> The people in the assembly made fun of Paundraka and degraded him
>> again and again. If So'ham is the correct knowledge why did the best
>> of Yogis Shuka degrade him many times in the assembly of Yogis? Even
>> though a guest of this 'God of Wisdom' why did Krishna Bhagavan
>> getting angry by the words of the messenger cut off this 'Jnani's
>> head? The Jnana So'ham 'I am He' is a false knowledge without a doubt
>> and it is disliked by Shuka, the Sutrakara, Ugrasena, his assembly
>> members and Krishna. The Jnana 'Daaso'ham' 'I am His servant' is the
>> only correct knowledge.
>> Advaiti response -
>> People learned in Bhagavata have told me Vaadiraaja has not given
>> correct picture of 'So'ham' principle and he has not even given
>> correct picture of Bhagavata Paundraka story. In that story it is
>> clearly said Paundraka imagined he ALONE was Vaasudeva and none other.
>> He was a cheap Impersonator. He thought the real Krishna was a fake
>> Krishna. He asked Krishna to give up His weapons. This is foolishness.
>> It is not in any way connected with 'So'ham' 'I am He' principle.
>> The 'I am He' principle is coming from 'Vaasudevaha Sarvam Iti' and
>> 'Tattvamasi' principle. Vaasudeva is everything. He is me, He is you,
>> He is every person in the world He is every animal, also every
>> creature and every thing in the Universe. The person understanding
>> this is a Jnani. He is a rare Mahatma. Sa Mahaatmaa Durlabhaha. Not
>> understanding this Vaadiraaja is angry with us. To him we say -
>> त्वयि मयि चान्यत्रैको विष्णुर्व्यर्थं कुप्यसि मय्यसहिष्णु: ।
>> सर्वास्मिन्नपि पश्यात्मानं सर्वत्रोत्सृज भेदज्ञानम् ॥
>> In me, in you and everywhere there is One Vishnu. Being Intolerant you
>> are angry with me. It is a waste. See yourself in all and everywhere.
>> Give up the Bheda Bhavana the sense of Difference. Accept
>> Vaadiraaja is taking Bhagavata example but he is not getting the
>> complete picture of that Holiest of Holy Vaishnava scriptures. He must
>> read the 11th Skandha. In Uddhava Gita clear Advaitic thinking is
>> prsented. Many Vaishnavas are concentrating only on 10th Skandha with
>> stories of Krishna and Gopis. Krishna dancing with Gopis is fine but
>> we have to also read the higher philosophy in the 11th Skandha Uddhava
>> Some Slokas from Uddhava Gita with Translation by Swami Madhavananda -
>> असत्त्वादात्मनोऽन्येषां भावानां तत्कृता भिदा ।
>> गतयो हेतवश्चास्य मृषा स्वप्नदृशो यथा ॥ 8 - 31
>> As objects other than the Atman are unreal, diversity caused by them
>> is false, as also Its passage to other spheres with its causes, as in
>> the case of a man seeing dreams.
>> मनसा वचसा दृष्ट्या गृह्यतेऽअन्यैरपीन्द्रियैः ।
>> अहमेव न मत्तोऽन्यदिति बुध्यध्वमंजसा ॥ 8 - 24
>> Understand this rightly that by mind, speech, sight, and the other
>> organs I alone am cognised, and nothing else.
>> गुणेषु चाविशच्चित्तमभीक्ष्णं गुणसेवया ।
>> गुणाश्च चित्तप्रभवा मद्रूप उभयं त्यजेत् ॥ 8 - 26
>> The mind which through constant dwelling on sense objects is attached
>> to them, and the sense objects which influence the mind, one should
>> give up both, being identified with Me.
>> बद्धो मुक्त इति व्याख्या गुणतो मे न वस्तुतः ।
>> गुणस्य मायामूलत्वान्न मे मोक्षो न बन्धनम् ॥ 6 - 1
>> The Lord said - The soul is described as bound or free from the point
>> of view of My Gunas, but it is not so in reality. And since the Gunas
>> are the creation of Maya, there is, in my opinion, neither bondage nor
>> एवं समाहितमतिर्मामेवात्मानमात्मनि ।
>> विचष्टे मयि सर्वात्मज्योतिर्ज्योतिषि संयुतम् ॥ 9 - 45
>> With one's mind thus absorbed, one sees Me alone in oneself and sees
>> oneself united to Me, the Self of all - like light united to light.
>> Even though some devotee may think 'I am His servant' 'Daaso'ham' it
>> is a starting point only. He must in course of time come to realize
>> 'So'ham' 'I am He'.
>> I would like comments from learned members on this discussion.
>> Commentary - Vaadiraaja has bowled the bouncer. The Advaiti batsman
>> has anticipated it and hooked it over deep Square Leg for another Six
>> runs. Captain Madhvacharya is shaking his head in disbelief.
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