[Advaita-l] Dvaita Vaada - Vadiraja Teertha's Nyayaratnavali Slokas 408 - 414 Nishkriya

[Venkatesh Murthy]

Namaste Sri Subrahmanian

I thank you for the Shruti and Smruti references. Vaadiraaja's dilemma
is this. Advaitis are saying Brahman is not active a Nishkriya thing.
It has no powers also. That Brahman is in the body also. How can that
Brahman become Active and make body also active? The body cannot be
active itself because it is a Jada Vastu. If you say some other
Consciousness is making body active there will be Advaita Haani
because there will be two Conscious things. 1) Brahman 2) that other
Consciousness.

If you say there is Jeeva in the body making it active that Active
Jeeva cannot be the Inactive Brahman. You are agreeing Jeeva is not
Brahman against your own Jeeva = Brahman equation.

For this the answer is the Action and Body are Maayika. They are not
real. Svabhava or Prakruti is creating Activity. The Lord said
Svabhaavastu Pravartate. That Svabhaava - Prakruti is Maayaa only.
Brahman is Nishkriya.

2015-04-28 14:58 GMT+05:30 V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>:
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 11:08 AM, Venkatesh Murthy via Advaita-l
> <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>
>> Namaste
>>
>> अनन्तशक्तियुक्तं तदणु चांगीकृतं मया ।
>> त्वया तु शक्तिविधुरमखण्डं महदेव तत् ।
>> अच्छेद्यं चोच्यते तस्मात्तस्य सञ्चरणं न हि ॥
>> किं स्याद्घटाभ्रसञ्चारो घटाद्यैरप्युपाधिभिः ।
>> अतः सञ्चरणार्हाणि चैतन्यानि पृथक् पृथक् ॥
>> हन्तः सञ्चरणानर्हजडदेहप्रवृत्तये ।
>> वाच्यानि नानाभोगाय भिन्नभिन्नान्यनादितः ॥
>> तत्सञ्चारेण सञ्चारो जडदेहस्य नान्यथा ।
>> अतस्तान्येव देहान्तः क्रियावन्ति ह्यणूनि च ॥
>> अभ्रोपाधिघटादीनां सञ्चारोऽप्यन्यचेतनैः ।
>> इतस्ततः स्थापने स्याद्देहे देहे न चापरः ॥
>> प्रवर्तकश्चेतनोऽस्ति सह तेन प्रवृत्तिमान् ।
>> तद्घटाकाशदृष्टान्तो दुर्घटस्ते विचारणे ॥
>> देहप्रवृत्तये व्याप्तब्रह्मचिद्भिन्नचिद्यतः ।
>> बलाद्वाच्या तेन शोच्या सर्वापि प्रक्रिया तव ॥
>> I have accepted the God with endless powers and the Jeeva is only atom
>> of Consciousness. You have accepted that Great Undivided Consciousness
>> without any powers. There is no activity in That. How is there activity in
>> the Pot-Space with a Upadhi like a Pot? Therefore in my
>> theory the Many Consciousnesses Jeevas are capable of activity. But
>> the body is Inert - a Jada vastu and not capable of activity. The Many
>> Jeevas have different experiences in different bodies without any
>> beginning. The activity of the Jada Body is because of activity in
>> Jeeva. Therefore the Atomic Jeevas  in bodies are the Acting Agents.
>> The Body with Jeeva like Pot Space Upadhi will have activity by
>> placing some other Consciousness in it. But there is no Other
>> Consciousness to make the Body active in your theory. Therefore Your
>> Pot Space example is impossible. You are forced to accept some other
>> Consciousness but not All Pervading Brahman Consciousness. Your whole
>> Advaita method is miserable.
>
>
> Dear Sri Venkatesh Murthy,
>
> While the reply given by you is correct, here is another way of replying the
> objections raised above:
>
> There are innumerable shruti/smṛti passages that teach that Brahman, after
> having created, has 'entered' all beings.  For example:
>
> तत्सृष्ट्वा । तदेवानुप्राविशत् । तदनुप्रविश्य । सच्च त्यच्चाभवत् । निरुक्तं
> चानिरुक्तं च । निलयनं चानिलयनं च । विज्ञानं चाविज्ञानं च । सत्यं चानृतं च
> सत्यमभवत् । यदिदं किञ्च । Tai.up.2.6.1
> सेयं देवतैक्षत हन्ताहमिमास्तिस्रो देवता अनेन जीवेनात्मनानुप्रविश्य नामरूपें
> व्याकरवाणीति ॥ २ ॥ Chā.6.3.2
> This is a bonus!! A great 2-in-1:
> ब्रह्मसूत्रभाष्यम् । द्वितीयः अध्यायः । तृतीयः पादः । उत्क्रान्तिगत्यधिकरणम्
> । सूत्रम् २७ - भाष्यम्
> हृदयायतनत्वमणुपरिमाणत्वं च आत्मनः अभिधाय तस्यैव ‘आ लोमभ्य आ नखाग्रेभ्यः’
> (छा. उ. ८-८-१) इति चैतन्येन गुणेन समस्तशरीरव्यापित्वं दर्शयति ॥ २७ ॥
> Brahman has entered every atomic space in the entire body.  Here we have the
> ch.up.quote too, apart from the Bhāṣya.
> स एष इह प्रविष्टः । आ नखाग्रेभ्यो यथा क्षुरः क्षुरधानेऽवहितः
> स्याद्विश्वम्भरो वा विश्वम्भरकुलाये तं न पश्यन्ति । Br.up. 1.4.7
> Since such statements are too many, I shall just refer this Bhāṣyam part
> which contains several such reference:
> ब्रह्मसूत्रभाष्यम् । द्वितीयः अध्यायः । तृतीयः पादः । आत्माधिकरणम् । सूत्रम्
> १७ - भाष्यम्
> The second verse of the BG 13th ch.
> ब्रह्मसूत्रभाष्यम् । तृतीयः अध्यायः । द्वितीयः पादः । उभयलिङ्गाधिकरणम् ।
> सूत्रम् १८ - भाष्यम्
> यत एव च अयमात्मा चैतन्यरूपो निर्विशेषो वाङ्मनसातीतः परप्रतिषेधोपदेश्यः, अत
> एव च अस्योपाधिनिमित्तामपारमार्थिकीं विशेषवत्तामभिप्रेत्य
> जलसूर्यकादिवदित्युपमा उपादीयते मोक्षशास्त्रेषु — ‘यथा ह्ययं ज्योतिरात्मा
> विवस्वानपो भिन्न बहुधैकोऽनुगच्छन् । उपाधिना क्रियते भेदरूपो देवः
> क्षेत्रेष्वेवमजोऽयमात्मा’ इति, ‘एक एव हि भूतात्मा भूते भूते व्यवस्थितः ।
> एकधा बहुधा चैव दृश्यते जलचन्द्रवत्’ (ब्र. बिं. १२) इति चैवमादिषु ॥ १८ ॥
>
> In all these it is categorically stated by the Shruti/smriti that Brahman is
> available in the body.
>
> All organs including the mind, intellect, etc. and even the prāṇa, are jaḍa,
> being products of prakṛti.  It is this body-mind complex that is compared to
> the pot.  Just as space is 'contained' in a pot, so too the all-pervading
> Brahman/Atman is contained as though in each body.  And where is that
> available exactly?  Even though the Chaitanyam has no limitations and
> therefore is everywhere, even in the body, from head to foot still, for the
> purposes of vedanta sādhana it is taught to be available in the buddhi-guhā,
> intellect-cave, in other words the mind, for realization.  The upanishads/BG
> teach:तस्मादेवंविच्छान्तो दान्त उपरतस्तितिक्षुः समाहितो
> भूत्वात्मन्येवात्मानं पश्यति सर्वमात्मानं पश्यति  Br.up.4.4.23 for example
> says: one has to concentrate and realize the Atman/Brahman in his mind.
> That is the purpose of 'praveśa', 'entering' of Brahman in each body, says
> Shankara at the end of a long discussion on the exact meaning of the praveśa
> shruti in the Tai.up. Since the all pervading Atman, for that very reason,
> cannot really 'enter' any place, the purpose of the shruti teaching the
> praveśa of Brahman in all bodies is for the very realizing It in the heart,
> for liberation.
>
> Also, that Atman/Brahman which is available in the mind-dravya as a
> reflection (since the manas is also a panchabhuta kārya, but of the
> apanchīkṛta bhūtas samaṣṭi, it is extremely pure, subtle, like a polished
> mirror, so that the reflection of the Chit, Brahman, is had there).  It is
> from this chaitanya available in the manas, the entire body, the organs,
> prana, all derive the chaitanya, power, to perform their respective duties
> in the body, to serve the jiva residing there.  Actually, as per the Ch.
> passage shown above, it is Brahman, as jiva, that resides in each body.
> Refer to the first few mantras of the Kenopanishad to see how each organ is
> powered by that One Consciousness.
>
> So, even though the body is compared to a pot and the all pervading Chit,
> Brahman is compared to the space, yet the body is not bereft of the
> Chaitanyam.  Thus, there is no substance at all whatsoever in the objections
> of Sri Vādiraja Tirtha in the above cited passages. To reiterate, the
> mind-stuff is the one that captures Chaitanyam and lends it to the various
> organs of the body.
>
> See some more blogs on responses to Sri Vādiraja Tirtha's objections:
>
> 1.
> http://atma.sulekha.com/blog/post/2009/03/the-status-and-role-of-scripture-in-advaita-a-study.htm
>
> 2.
> http://rashmun.sulekha.com/blog/post/2007/09/dvaita-vs-advaita-vadiraja-attacks-advaita-part-2.htm
>
> regards
>
> subrahmanian.v
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> Vaadiraaja is attacking the Pot Space example of the Advaitis. They
>> say Space is everywhere. But with a Upadhi like a Pot that Space is
>> limited to a Pot Space. The Jeeva is like a Pot Space. It is the Space
>> but with Pot Upadhi. His objection is there is no activity in Brahman
>> but there is activity in Jeeva. Why? Because we can see the Inert body
>> moving. Who is making the Inert Body to move and other actions? It is
>> Jeeva because the only Consciousness in the body is Jeeva.
>>
>> If Brahman is like Space and Inactive and that Space is surrounded by
>> Pot how can that Pot Space suddenly  become Active? If some other
>> Consciousness outside the Pot is making it to move. But Advaitis
>> cannot accept some other Consciousness. They are saying Brahman is
>> Inactive Jeeva is Active but Brahman and Jeeva are One. Therefore this
>> Pot Space example is totally rubbish. The whole Advaita theory is
>> wrong. Therefore the Atomic Jeevas are the Actors.
>>
>> Advaiti response -
>>
>> People learned in Advaita say Vaadiraaja has not understood even basic
>> Advaita. He does not undertand Activity is only Vyavahara. It cannot
>> be Paramartha. In Brahman there is no activity. In Jeeva if you see
>> activity it is Avidyaa only. There is no activity really any where by
>> anyone. Maayaa is causing activity. Actor, action like going and
>> coming, space and time for activity all these are Maayaa only. Not
>> understanding this he has attacked Advaita Doctrines.
>>
>> Svestasvatara Upanishad 6 - 19 is saying Para Brahman is Nishkriya
>> free from Action and partless.
>> निष्कलं निष्क्रियं शान्तं निरवद्यं निरञ्जनम् ।
>> अमृतस्य परं सेतुं दग्धेन्धनमिवानलम् ॥
>>
>> My dear Vaadiraaja kindly study the very excellent Gita Bhashya of our
>> Acharya for 13 - 31 .
>>
>> कः पुनः देहेषु करोति लिप्यते च? यदि तावत् अन्यः परमात्मनो देही करोति
>> लिप्यते च, ततः इदम् अनुपपन्नम् उक्तं क्षेत्रज्ञेश्वरैकत्वम्
>> ‘क्षेत्रज्ञं चापि मां विद्धि’ (भ. गी. १३-२) इत्यादि । अथ नास्ति
>> ईश्वरादन्यो देही, कः करोति लिप्यते च? इति वाच्यम्; परो वा नास्ति इति
>> सर्वथा दुर्विज्ञेयं दुर्वाच्यं च इति भगवत्प्रोक्तम् औपनिषदं दर्शनं
>> परित्यक्तं वैशेषिकैः सांख्यार्हतबौद्धैश्च । तत्र अयं परिहारो भगवता
>> स्वेनैव उक्तः ‘स्वभावस्तु प्रवर्तते’ (भ. गी. ५-१४) इति ।
>> अविद्यामात्रस्वभावो हि करोति लिप्यते इति व्यवहारो भवति, न तु परमार्थत
>> एकस्मिन् परमात्मनि तत् अस्ति ।
>>
>> Translation by A. Mahadeva Sastri -
>>
>> Objection - Who then in bodies acts and is tainted? If on the one
>> hand, an embodied self distinct from the Supreme Self acts and is
>> tainted then the identity of Kshetrajna and Isvara spoken of in such
>> places as xiii.2 would be inexplicable.If on the other hand, there be
>> no embodied self distinct from Isvara, then tell me who acts and is
>> tainted or say that the Isvara is not Supreme. On the ground that the
>> Doctrine of the Upanishads taught by the Lord is in every way
>> difficult to understand and difficult to explain it has been abandoned
>> by the Vaisesikas, as well as by the Sankhyas, the Arhatas and the
>> Buddhists.
>>
>> Answer - As regards this objection, the following answer has been
>> afforded by the Lord Himself - 'It is Nature that acts' xiii.2. THE
>> IDEA THAT THERE IS ONE WHO ACTS AND IS TAINTED IS A MERE ILLUSION
>> (AVIDYA) AND NOTHING ELSE. ACTION DOES NOT REALLY EXIST IN THE SUPREME
>> SELF. It has for this very reason been pointed out by the Lord here
>> and there is no necessity of performing works (karma) for those
>> devotees of Wisdom, for the order of Paramahamsa-Parivrajakas who
>> adhere to this doctrine of Supreme Truth (Paramartha Sankhya Darsana)
>> and have risen above avidya and vyavahara and all experience due to
>> avidya.
>>
>> Like the Vaisesikas, Sankhyas, Jains and Buddhists have done the
>> Dvaitis also have not understood the Upanishads and they have created
>> a theory with no base in the Upanishads.
>>
>> किमिव न करोति न लिप्यते इति अत्र दृष्टान्तमाह —
>> यथा सर्वगतं सौक्ष्म्या—
>> दाकाशं नोपलिप्यते ।
>> सर्वत्रावस्थितो देहे
>> तथात्मा नोपलिप्यते ॥ ३२ ॥
>> भाष्यम् - यथा सर्वगतं व्यापि अपि सत् सौक्ष्म्यात् सूक्ष्मभावात् आकाशं
>> खं न उपलिप्यते न संबध्यते, सर्वत्र अवस्थितः देहे तथा आत्मा न उपलिप्यते
>> ||
>> Translation -
>> Like what does He not act, like what is He not tainted? Here follows
>> the illustration:
>>
>> 32. As the All pervading Akasa is from its subtlety not soiled so the
>> Self seated in the body everywhere is not soiled.
>>
>> Commentary - Vaadiraaja has bowled a bouncer but the Advaiti batsman
>> at the last moment has guided it over and behind the wicket keeper for
>> one more elegant six.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Regards
>>
>> -Venkatesh
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-- 
Regards

-Venkatesh