[Advaita-l] Fwd: Difficulty with Akhandakara Vrtti

[H S Chandramouli]

For info of members as brought out in my other post.


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Difficulty with Akhandakara Vrtti
To: H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com>



Chandramouluji:

<<  In all knowledge of x,y,z, there is chidaabhaasa -since mind is
involved.  >> .
What about the knowledge of Sushupti << I know I slept well >> . Chidabhasa
is dormant/inactive. But still knowledge is there. This knowledge is
therefore not attributable to Chidabhasa.
-----------------
Sada:

It is, otherwise I cannot recollect that I slept very well. In deep sleep
state chidaabhaasa is reflected in  anandamaya kosha, which is nothing but
vijnanamaya kosha in folded form or potential form. Deep sleep analysis is
extensively presented in Panchadashi 11th chapter by Vidyaranya. Folding of
annamaya to praanamaya to manomaya to vijnaanamay  occurs  in turn as one
goes to deep sleep state, and the vijnaamaya in folded form is anandamaya
kosha. There is akhadaakara ajnaana vRitti – as I do not know – the absence
of the knowledge of subject-object division is there. It has to be akhanda
only since there is no division in the vRitti. Since it is absence of
duality and that is reflected as ananda or happiness as absence of
suffering – with degrees of happiness – moda and pramoda, etc. The
existence or sat is expressed as the existence of the absence of
perturbations in the mind. Thus we still have 1. Original consciousness, 2
Reflected
 consciousness (chidabhasa) and the 3. The reflecting medium which is the
ananda maya kosha, with akhandaakaara ajnaana. Here the distinction between
particular (tula avidya) and general (moola avidya) is also not there.
Hence it is also called kaarNashareera. Since vyashTi and samaShTi
differentiation is also not possible, ajnaana is also called maaya from
samaShit point. Hence from vyashti point kaaraNa shareera and samashTi
point, maaya with Iswara, as the distinction between vyashti and samashti
cannot be made due to absence of subject-object duality.  This aspect is
discussed in matra 6 of Mandukya.

Since there is recollection of the knowledge of the absence of
subject-object duality  by the mind, as a) I did not know anything, b) I
slept very well, and c) I was happy –imply that knowledge and therefore
recollection of three aspect later occur. Note:I had written few months ago
a series of article on Who Slept Very Well posted in this and other list
serve. Can send a copy, if interested.
---------------------------

Chandramouli:

We can also consider from another viewpoint , the difference between jada (
inert ) and svaprakasha ( selfevident ) vastu. The fundamental difference
is that for cognizing a jada vastu an illuminating entity is needed whereas
for cognizing a svaprakasha vastu another illuminating entity is not
needed. For both nodoubt mind is involved as the instrument for cognition.
According to you Chidabhasa is needed for both the above cognitions. Then
there is no difference between them.

---------------------
Sada:

There is no difference in the knowledge of vastu jnaanam, irrespective of
whether it is non-illuminating object say stone or illuminating object, say
sun. In both cases, there is object knowledge –as idam vastu jnaanam and
along with it subject knowledge as I know this idam vastu, which arise
spontaneously whenever the idam vastu knowledge arises. This applies to all
objective knowledge whether it is a lighted or unlighted candle – tasya
bhaasaa sarvam idam vibhaati – sarvam include all. In the lighted candle I
do not need additional light to illumine while in the unlighted one, I do.

Also of interest to know is that even the darkness is illumined by the
saakshii via chidaabhaasa as I know it is dark because of which I cannot
see anything. Darkness is not swayam prakaasham  and the external light
cannot illumine darkness. The saakshi with chidaabhaasa and the mind
illumines directly the darkness and similarly the ignorance in the
deep-sleep state. It is still inert vastu jnaanam only. In the case of
darkness there is still subject –object duality that arises in the mind
since knowledge of a) it is dark and b) I know that it is dark – both arise
in the mind. That knowledge of subject-object duality is not there in the
deep sleep state as ignorance is akhandam.
Hence mind with chidaabhaasa is involved in all knowledge including
self-knowledge.
---------------------
Chandramouli:

My point is Chidabhasa is needed for cognizing all inert vastus . But it is
not needed for cognizing Svaprakasha vastu ( It is so by definition itself
) . Mind is no doubt needed for both as the instrument for cognition. Hence
my understanding is that Chidabhasa is not responsible for Realization (
loosely worded as Self cognition ) . Atman/Self being selfevident no other
illuminating entity is needed for that. This was my earlier question and I
think it has not been addressed except restating that Chidabhasa is
responsible and needed for the “ cognition “ of Atman/Brahman. My earlier
observation hence remains.
---------------------
Sada:

I do not think so. Swaprakaasha aatma is all the time there. It does not
have to realize. The confusion that I am a jiiva is only in the mind – but
mind itself is inert  - so mind itself cannot be confused. Hence confusion
is mind enlivened by chidabhasa. However chidaabhaasa cannot be there
without the original.  Thus all the three involved. Hence self-realization
involve mind with chidaabhaasa recognizing that the consciousness that I am
(the little i), as expressed in the mind, is only the reflection of the
total consciousness that I AM, since it is that total consciousness only
that is getting reflected  by the local minds. The ignorance that ( I am =
this)  arises in the mind only. That is vRitti ajnaanam and that can be
removed by the vRitti jnaanam that involves I am that sat chit ananda that
enlivens not only this BMI (kshetrajna) but that enlivens all kshetras in
all jiivas ( mam in the kshetramjman ca api mam viddhi sarva kshetrashu )
-----------------
Chadramouli:
That the cognition is at vyavaharika level only has not been disputed .

Sada: Great. That implies that implies the mind since vyavahaara cannot
occur without the mind present.

Hari Om!
Sadananda