[Advaita-l] Difficulty with Akhandakara Vrtti

[Aurobind Padiyath]

Dear Sri Chandramouliji,

No need to be confused.

First I said the word vritti is being used for want of a better word. Here
the word vritti is being used as that which substituted all other vritti
even though it is not a vritti by itself.

Second I said it is a state and not a vritti with the above in mind. But as
explained any state has validity only in vyavaharika level, but this is not
a vyavaharika state but a paramarthika avastha and the word avastha is for
explaining from the vyavaharika point of view. Because once known there is
no return to vyavaharika state. Vyavahara seen only by those who are
aspiring to get there, but not who has known the "to be known". From the
view point of one who has known the Truth as Sathyam Jnanam Anantham, there
is nothing more to be known and he becomes a "krthakrthyah" or one who has
nothing more to be done. His Vyavahara is not a Vyavahara from his point of
view but only from those who see him from Vyavahara. It's called an
Aabhsam.
So when you mix up both these views they may appear to contradictory.

For the one who thinks a mirage is water, he will think that the one who
knows the truth of mirage and warns the others there is no water it is an
Aabhsam, is not telling the truth.  He is also seeing apparently water
only. But the one who knows it is not water in spite he also has all the
same appearance of water, knows the truth and do not get deluded.
Same way when all that appears as many is in essence only one. For bubble
floating on sea can see waves, froth and the deep waters, but knows all are
water including itself and there is nothing other than that.

I've used some examples for clarity but they also have limitations.

Pranams,

Aurobind Padiyath
On 22 Jun 2015 14:49, "H S Chandramouli" <hschandramouli at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Sri Aurobind Padiyath,
>
>
>  I am somewhat surprised. With your current statement
>
>
>  << You are right when you say that a state cannot be beret of both
> thought and thoughtlessness. For "a state" is valid only from the
> vyavaharika point of view and the very nature of it is built on thoughts
> and intervening absence before the next one >> ,
>
>
>  your statements in the previous mails
>
>
>  << "akhandakara vritti"
> Akhanda meaning unbroken, Akara meaning (here) Swaroopa,  Vritti (here)
> meaning continues,  (not thoughts).
> So, that continuous Swaroopa avastha which displaced the earlier wave like
> thoughts of vishaya which were arising and subsiding including that of deep
> sleep like state where visheshvijnana absence is felt, because even deep
> sleep
> is not continuous, is the true state of akhandakara vritti. >>
>
>
>  and
>
>
>  << Having explained that, let me try to come to the akandakara vritti.
> The pramana for that state is what is told as " Atma vyatirekena nasti
> kinchit". Even thought or thoughtlessness are not applicable to that state
> where the mind cannot reach nor words can explain. >> ,
>
>
>  both become invalid because in both “ akhandakara vritti “ is termed
> such a “ state “ only. Kindly clarify.
>
>
>  Pranams and Regards
>
> On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 2:18 PM, Aurobind Padiyath <
> aurobind.padiyath at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Sri Chandramouliji,
>> You are right when you say that a state cannot be beret of both thought
>> and thoughtlessness. For "a state" is valid only from the vyavaharika point
>> of view and the very nature of it is built on thoughts and intervening
>> absence before the next one. In Paramarthata "Atma vyatirekena kinchit
>> naasti ".
>> Neither the original Upanishads nor the Bhashya ever mentions the term
>> "akandakara vritti". This has crept in from later commentators attempt to
>> explain the inexplicable.
>> Even though the word akandakara is not mentioned you can get a clarity if
>> you can go thru the Bhashya on Brhadaranyaka where detailed explanation of
>> " Brahmaivedam sarvam" is being discussed in the beginning.
>> Pranams,
>> Aurobind Padiyath
>> On 22 Jun 2015 13:58, "H S Chandramouli" <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Sri Aurobind Padiyath Ji,
>>>
>>>
>>>  Thanks for the clarification that you are not referring to nirvikalpa.
>>> It removes a major impediment in progressing the discussion. A great
>>> relief.
>>>
>>>
>>>  Once we talk of “ akhandakara vritti “ and “ a state “ , we are in the
>>> Vyavaharika plane only and not in Paramarthika plane. But the rest of your
>>> note mostly pertain to the Paramarthika plane. It cannot be maintained << Even
>>> thought or thoughtlessness are not applicable to that state  >> . A “
>>> state “ must necessarily be either with thought ( as in jagrat or svapna )
>>> or without thought ( as in sushupti or samadhai ) . A “ state “ cannot be
>>> bereft of both. Kindly clarify.
>>>
>>>
>>>  Also please give a reference to where this concept of “ akhandakara
>>> vritti “ is explained so that I can study and better understand the context
>>> in which it has been explained.
>>>
>>>
>>>  Pranans and Regards
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 9:31 PM, Aurobind Padiyath <
>>> aurobind.padiyath at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sri Chandramouliji,
>>>> Hari Om!!!
>>>> Nirvikapla stage is not culminating one and hence cannot be Brahma
>>>> Jnana avastha. Just because you have no vikalpa does not mean you have
>>>> knowledge. You have no vikalpa even during deep sleep. The difference
>>>> between the two is one is involuntary and the other is a result of forced
>>>> control of mind.
>>>> Having explained that, let me try to come to the akandakara vritti.
>>>> The pramana for that state is what is told as " Atma vyatirekena nasti
>>>> kinchit". Even thought or thoughtlessness are not applicable to that state
>>>> where the mind cannot reach nor words can explain. But it is not
>>>> nothingness. It or that state is simply an "Is" or what we call in Sanskrit
>>>> as asti. To what or whom can that state explain when there is none other
>>>> than just itself in a state of being?
>>>> I do not know if I can ever explain it in words. It is where all
>>>> thoughts become knowledge just as where all ingredients of a yagna becomes
>>>> only fire in the yagnakund.
>>>> Hari Om!!!
>>>>
>>>> Aurobind Padiyath
>>>> On 21 Jun 2015 21:08, "H S Chandramouli" <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Sri Aurobind Padiyath Ji,
>>>>>
>>>>> Can you kindly clarify if this state you are mentioning is a '
>>>>> thoughtless state " or a " thought with unitary knowledge " . The question
>>>>> is genuine as many interpret nirvikalpa samadhi ( thoughtless state ) also
>>>>> as Brahma Jnana.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>>
>>>>> Chandramouli
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 6:05 PM, Aurobind Padiyath via Advaita-l <
>>>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hari Om,
>>>>>> "akhandakara vritti"
>>>>>> Akhanda meaning unbroken, Akara meaning (here) Swaroopa,  Vritti
>>>>>> (here)
>>>>>> meaning continues,  (not thoughts).
>>>>>> So, that continuous Swaroopa avastha which displaced the earlier wave
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> thoughts of vishaya which were arising and subsiding including that
>>>>>> of deep
>>>>>> sleep like state where visheshvijnana absence is felt, because even
>>>>>> deep sleep
>>>>>> is not continuous, is the true state of akhandakara vritti. It is
>>>>>> called a
>>>>>> vritti as a misnomer due to the absence of a better word.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hari om!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Aurobind Padiyath
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>