[Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: Difficulty with Akhandakara Vrtti

[kuntimaddi sadananda]

Aurobindji:

I agree with you on the other points mentioned in your mail except the following

"For ajnaani, when he goes to deep sleep state he sleeps as ajnaani only - no ajnaani gets up from deep sleep state as jnaani."

Ajnana is only for the antahkarana not for swaroopa. Jnana will be needed where ever Ajnana is present. In your explanation of deep sleep if Ajnana is there,  Guru and upadesha will be needed there also in deep sleep.
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Sada: 

Let us look a simpler problem. Two cases: 1. ajnaani of Chemistry 2. Jnaani of Chemistry. - For both jnaanm or ajnanaam is at the intellect level. When ajnaani of Chemistry sleeps, his intellect that has ajnaanam also folded as such. Hence in his deep sleep - the mind that does not Chemistry sleeps as such. On the other hand the jnaani of Chemistry the jnaanam is also in the intellect and when it is folded, he sleeps as such as folded jnaanam of chemistry. 

We are not talking of the Saaskhi which never sleeps. It is illumining the sleeping folded minds of both jnaani and ajnaani . From its point it is unaffected by what it illumines or to say more correctly what gets illumined in its presence.  - just as Sun is unaffected by what is getting illumined. 

Sakshii swaruupam is jnaanam as pure consciousness not jnaanam of - including the jnaanam of self. It is unqualified homogenous undifferentiated consciousness or pure Knowledge without any qualification. Saakshi does not even know or need not know its saaskhitvam too  as from its point there is no saakshyam also. Some of these are discussed in the Advaita Makaranda by Lakshmidhara kavi.

The self-knowledge is also at the Mind level only or you can say at anthakaraNa. - Shankara discusses this exhaustively in relation to the sloka -kshetrajnam ca api maam viddhi sarva kshetreshu bhaarata. 

The jnaani and ajnaani is only at vyaavahaara state - that is the  notions in the mind (illumined by chidaabhasa) that consciousness that I am is the all pervading consciousness the original light that is getting illumined. It is the mind that has to know. Hence Vedanta is for the mind - and it is the mind that needs a teacher. 

In deep sleep state, the knowledge cannot occurs since the mind that needs to know is not available to learn. To see the original light of consciousnesses (which cannot be seen) but can be seen only cognitively, I need to prepare the mind - Viveka is required and is available only in the waking state. Hence any self-realization by the mind can only take place in the waking state. It requires subtle discrimination to differentiate the real from apparently real. It is like looking at the full moon, I want to see the sunlight that is illumining the moon while seeing only the reflected sunlight from the moon. I cannot see the original sunlight. This is example where sun is a source. The pure sat chit ananda that is all-pervading light of consciousness there is no localizes source. Saakshi is term we use only for that (part - word used to convey only) that is illumining the local mind - which cannot be recognized other than cognitively using the reflected
 light - chidabhaasa - reflection by the subtle body. This is what we mean by self-realization is also mithyaa only since it is at the mind level. 
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Arabindji: 
 
 Ajnana being only experienced during waking, because the Antahkarana becomes active on waking with the budhi, part of Anthakarana, reflecting the Chit. That's why when the Ajnani wakes as Ajnani and Jnani as Jnani. Like the tiger and mosquito as respective animals. A blue flower will reflect only blue just as red as red. So all reflections in a Ajnana Anthakarana can only reflect ignorance. And Ajnana is only in waking because of which the need to eradicate that in waking. Deep sleep is "Easha Swabhavah" as told in Mandukya. Even waking and dream is the same,  that's why we see Jnanis like any others having waking deep sleep and dream. But they have the Jnanam which do not delude them like others.

Sada: Yes. This is true for Janni also. Jnaanam is only at the antahkarana stage only. From the point of pure saakshii it is one without a second- No saakshyam even. 

The Mandukya discusses in each state two aspect one from the micro and the other from macro. In mantra 5 it states from the micro aspect - na kanacana kaamam kamayata et. in the Mantra 6 from the samashiti point as Iswara.

We are discussing at the vyashTi level since from samashTi level we call Iswara as sarvajna. Hence it is only vyashTi ajnaani that need to be eliminated and for that Viveka which is available only in the waking state is needed. 

Hari Om!
Sadananda