[Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** Only Self knowledge gives liberation...

[H S Chandramouli]

The following left out by oversight.

The last sentence should read  << but attain Moksha at the end of the Kalpa
from Brahma Loka itself after attaining Jnana in that Loka  >> .

On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 12:39 PM, H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com
> wrote:

> Dear Sri Vivek,
>
>
>  You wrote << At the same time there have been countless saints that
> attained liberation by doing long and intense mantra japa or other
> practices and it doesn't seem they studied Vedanta at all. >>
>
>
>  and
>
>
>  << Still some doubt is there. As Shankara says, "Meditation can not give
> moksha" neither can any other practices except Jnana.
>
> You said that Self knowledge will dawn after intense meditation.
>
> Somehow it seems like a slight contradiction from Shankara's words. >> .
>
>
>  Sri Bhagavatpada has left absolutely no doubts that , according to him ,
> Moksha can be attained only through Jnanam. But he also mentions that this
> Jnanam can be attained either here and now , in this birth itself , called
> Jivan Mukti or later after reaching Brahma Loka called Krama Mukti . Your
> first observation above could very well refer to the latter category .
> They are figuratively considered as having “ attained liberation “ on
> casting away the current body as those who reach Brahma Loka by this method
> are not considered to return to this Loka any time later , but attain
> Moksha at the end of the Kalpa from Brahma Loka itself.
>
>
>  Regards
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 5:33 AM, Vivek via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>> Still some doubt is there. As Shankara says, "Meditation can not give
>> moksha" neither can any other practices except Jnana.
>>
>> You said that Self knowledge will dawn after intense meditation.
>>
>> Somehow it seems like a slight contradiction from Shankara's words.
>>
>> Anyone wants to elaborate on this?
>>
>> Vivek.
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Jun 29, 2015, at 10:00 PM, RAMESH RAMANAN <rameshramanan at yahoo.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Dear Sri Vivekji,
>> >
>> > Pranams,
>> >
>> > Through the practice of intense meditation, chittha shuddhi takes place
>> and in that state, self-knowledge dawns automatically, just as when one
>> drives away the marshy substance, the clear water below, which remained
>> hidden due to the marshy substance, becomes clearly visible. Or, as when a
>> dark room is lit up, the darkness disappears, the chittha shuddhi leads
>> directly to self-realization, for which a study of Vedantic literature is
>> not required. Further, Sri Ramana Maharishi has said that he may have
>> completed most of his sadhanas in his previous birth,  which has fructified
>> in the current birth. This could apply to the saints, who do not seem to
>> have read vedantic literature in their present birth. Sri Ramakrishna was
>> almost an illiterate person, who also forgot how to sign his own name,
>> though he did attend some schooling. His knowledge of Nirvikalpa Samadhi
>> was through direct experience. He may also have finished all of his
>> spiritual readings in an earlier birth and in this birth, that past reading
>> may have speeded up the process of his self-realization.
>> >
>> > I think there is a saying in Sanskrit: to the effect: "One should
>> always try to upgrade one's learning. Though it may not be beneficial in
>> this birth, it is bound to be beneficial in a later births." This could
>> apply to both secular and spiritual knowledge. We see so many child
>> prodigies and some children have been recorded for their ability to
>> recollect their past lives. The child prodigies may have completed their
>> education in their previous lives and may have acquired success in
>> retaining such learning through intense efforts, which fructify in a later
>> birth.
>> >
>> > Namaskars once again, Ramesh Ramanan.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Monday, 29 June 2015, 17:32, Vivek via Advaita-l <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Hari Om,
>> >
>> > Shankara says that only through self knowledge you can become
>> enlightened and that puja, japa, selfless service, meditation etc can not
>> enlighten you. They can purify you, make your mind calm and thin out your
>> ego but not  give you liberation.
>> >
>> > At the same time there have been countless saints that attained
>> liberation by doing long and intense mantra japa or other practices and it
>> doesn't seem they studied Vedanta at all.
>> >
>> > This has created a conflict in my mind.
>> >
>> > Can someone shed some light on this?p
>> >
>> > Many thanks,
>> > Vivek
>> >
>> >
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