[Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: Only Self knowledge gives liberation...

[Vivek]

Thanks so much for taking the time for the detailed explanation. I'm definitely going to read it over a few times and deeply reflect on it. 

Much appreciated. Thanks for the clarity on this subject. 

Vivek. 



> On Jun 30, 2015, at 12:37 PM, Sujal Upadhyay via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> 
> Pranams,
> 
> Reply is divided into 2 parts.
> 
> Part - I - Necessity of reading shastras and application of Sri Ramana
> Maharshi's philosophy.
> Part - II - direct reply to vivek's question
> 
> ---
> 
> *Part - I - Necessity of reading shastras and application of Sri Ramana
> Maharshi's philosophy. *
> 
> Regarding not meditating, or no need to meditate or who is the one who
> meditates or no need of shastras, etc are not applicable to the newbies.
> 
> All these things are given in Ashtavakra Gita, but Gita itself warns that
> if you take it rightly, you will enter into nirvikalp samadhi, if not you
> will drop everything that you do and this will cause downfall.
> 
> The thing is extrovert mind cannot meditate or is not capable of even doing
> japa. vivek-yukta vairagya is necessary for spiritual development. The 4
> qualities - vivek, vairagya, satsampatti, mumukshutva are necessary. You
> can expect them to be fully developed, else you are a GYAnI, as strong
> faith in brahman is only possible when you abide in it. Hence another word
> for GYAnI is brahmaniShTha. nishTHA means shraddhA. Strong faith in Brahman
> is called as brahmaniShThA. Hence GYAnI is brahmaniShTha.
> 
> Advaita sits on karma kANDa, which givs us inner purity. Now since vedic
> karma kANDa and agnihotra re not carried out, chitta shuddhi has to be done
> by other ways like chanting rAma nAma, etc.
> 
> shastra-s gives one direction-road map, clarity and gives you words that
> you can ponder upon. In Ramana Maharshi's words, sajAtiya vritti pravAh,
> vijAtiya tiraskriti. Mind has to be filled with thoughts on God. Absence of
> bhogya padArtha in mind is called as vairAGYA. Only then mind can stay calm
> and allow japa to happen. Only then consciousness can separate itself from
> body / bodies, thoughts, emotions and various scenes that are created
> inside mind. If you skip this preparatory step of turning the mind
> introvert and creating ability to forget the world and focus only of
> brahman or ISvara, then advaita would be very difficult.
> 
> Ramana Maharshi's Who Am I philosophy is very good, but is effective only
> to very pure mind. He didnt even take support of OM to enter into samAdhi.
> The goal of Self Enquiry is to effortlessly abide in our natural state -
> samAdhi. Hence after enquiring Who Am I? the mind tries to locate the
> source of thoughts, emotions and desires. The source of all is none other
> than brahman. Hence after repeating Who am I, separation of Non-I takes
> takes and mind naturally gets pushed towards it's source - Brahman
> resulting in samAdhi. Who Am I is not a mental repetition, but an inner
> exploration about our true nature.
> 
> Without foundation one cannot build castle and building foundation takes
> time. More we try to rush, more our progress is stalled.
> 
> ---
> 
> *Part - II - direct reply to vivek's question*
> 
> Liberation can only be attained through knowledge is true. Even when one
> practices Japa, finally, mind transcends mind itself and enters into source
> of mantra which is Brahman.
> 
> Initially, japa is in mind, then it connects with heart. Then it continues
> by itself. Now, the force of thoughts is not so strong that it drags you
> into thought process. You can detach yourself from thoughts. since mantra
> continues by itself, now you can be aware of the source of mantra, from
> where the mantra originates and terminates. Mind finally merges into the
> source resulting in samAdhi.
> 
> In this process, initially there is mental effort to chant mantra and hence
> it there is a saturation point. One cannot meditate for long hours as mind
> gets stressed. Wise say, limited effort cannot give limitless results.
> Hence little bit of japa cannot give you moksha, immortality, eternal
> freedom. Hence no kind of karma can ever give moksha. Our journey is from
> effort to effortless. Hence after becoming sakshi, one does not need to
> make effort to chant mantra. You just have to observe.  Hence there is no
> karma involved in it. When mind completely rests, then it merges in
> samadhi. There is no mantra in this state. It is this non-dual knowledge,
> abiding in Self that gives liberation. Liberation means to effortlessly and
> permanently stay in this natural state of samadhi or sahaj samadhi in
> Ramana Maharshi's words. Hence it is not that you enter into samadhi only
> by doing japa. It is your own nature and hence you need not do anything.
> But this instruction is only applicable to a person who has uproote all
> other desires except one - I want moksha. For him, the instruction that
> Liberation cannot be obtained through any other means than knowledge is
> applicable. You dont need to meditate to achieve. Such high soul quits even
> the desire to meditate and achieve moksha and as a result has no wish to do
> anything. One immediately without any moments delay enters into samadhi.
> Remember, all desires and sanchi karma has already been uprooted earlier.
> Mind is almost empty. only desire left in mind is 'I want moksha'. To such
> a high souled one this instruction is applicable.
> 
> After dhyana siddhi, one need to read shastras. Shastras are pointers. In
> meditation Isvara or Guru takes the meditators to higher levels and finally
> makes one experience nirvikalp samadhi. Though the stay in samadhi is only
> for a few moments it is kike lion tasting blood. It does not like anything
> else but wants to have more blood. By repeated entering into samadhi, the
> desires are destroyed, mind is destroyed. It is not that after all desires
> are destroyed for the first time, mind enters into samadhi and stays in it
> permanently. IMHO this is not the case which some yogis believe. Hence not
> be doing any karma, not by reading shastras but by repeated entering into
> samadhi which is knowledge itself, one attains freedom.
> 
> Hari OM
> 
> 
> "To disconnect from the self and to become Aware of anything else is
> nothing but unhappiness" - Bhagawan Ramana Maharshi
> 
> He who has faith has all
> He who lacks faith, lacks all
> It is the faith int he name of lord that works wonders
> FAITH IS LIFE, DOUBT IS DEATH - Sri Ramakrishna
> 
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 10:34 AM, kuntimaddi sadananda via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> 
>> Subbuji - Pranama
>> 
>> There are lot of confusion about Nirvikala Samadhi. Some one asked me this
>> in facebook and I am still composing an answer to this question and now saw
>> this email. There is a notion in the Ramana Maharshi groups that Vedanta
>> study is not needed and one can sit and meditate and go beyond the mind and
>> knowledge gets revealed to you.
>> 
>> Perhaps you can explain what exactly the nirvikapa samadhi and its role
>> in the pursuit of truth.
>> 
>> Hari Om!
>> Sadananda
>> 
>> --------------------------------------------
>> On Tue, 6/30/15, V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** Only Self knowledge gives
>> liberation...
>> To: "Vivek" <ammasfeet at icloud.com>, "A discussion group for Advaita
>> Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>> Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2015, 12:47 AM
>> 
>> In Shankara's
>> Vedanta, meditation is nididhyāsanam that is taken up
>> after
>> shravanam and mananam.  This is the
>> only method Shankara has approved based
>> on
>> the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 4.5.6:: आत्मा वा
>> अरे द्रष्टव्यः
>> श्रोतव्यो
>> मन्तव्यो
>> निदिध्यासितव्यो....One can
>> read the bhāṣyam for this.
>> 
>> subrahmanian.v
>> 
>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 5:33 AM, Vivek via
>> Advaita-l <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Still some
>> doubt is there. As Shankara says, "Meditation can not
>> give
>>> moksha" neither can any other
>> practices except Jnana.
>>> 
>>> You said that Self knowledge will dawn
>> after intense meditation.
>>> 
>>> Somehow it seems like a slight
>> contradiction from Shankara's words.
>>> 
>>> Anyone wants to
>> elaborate on this?
>> Vivek.
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