[Advaita-l] Shortest Sentence in English is a Mahaa Vaakya?

[Venkatraghavan S]

Dear Sir,
Thanks to you and others on the list for the clarification.

My question was to determine if the upanishad was taking the view that
sanyAsA may not be a necessary condition for the teaching of brahmavidya,
but sounds like there is compelling evidence and rationale against
attributing that view merely from the use of samitpANih.

Once again, thanks to everyone for their contributions.

Regards,
Venkat
On 28 Mar 2015 10:29, "H S Chandramouli" <hschandramouli at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 23 Mar 2015, Venkatraghavan S wrote:
>
> >>sa gurumevAbhigachchhetsamitpANiH
>
> What is the purpose of going to a guru with "samitpANiH"?
>
> If sanYAsA was a necessary condition for a mumukshu sishyA to qualify to
> receive brahmavidyA, then presumably the shrotriyam brahmaniShtham guru
> would also necessarily be a sanyAsI, and given up agni kAryA as a result.
> Of
> what use is samit to such a guru?
>
> This Mundaka verse 1-2-12 observes that the spiritual aspirant should ,
> after concluding by due analysis that the results attainable by all the
> apara vidyas are transient and not worth striving for whereas what he
> desires for is that which is of the nature of Nitya, Indestructible, Devoid
> of fear, Kutastha (Bereft of modification ) etc , develop vairagya and
> approach a Guru for guidance. Tradition has it that a shishya should not
> approach a Guru emptyhanded. But the aspirant in this case has nothing to
> call his own. Even such a situation should not deter him from approaching a
> Guru. Thus the word samitpanih could be understood to refer to any or all
> of the following aspects.
>
>
>
>    1.
>
>    The Aspirant could collect Samith for this purpose being easily and
>    freely available
>
>    2.
>
>    The Gurus invariably had a Gurukula catering to the spiritual
>    requirements of several aspirants in different Ashramas like
>    brahmacharya/vanaprastha etc. Samith being required for the Nityakarmas of
>    all such aspirants thus served a very useful purpose.
>
>    3.
>
>    For the same reason Samith is always considered a very sacred material
>    and hence has a very respected position in our spiritual activities.
>
>     4.
>
>    Vairagya. The aspirant givesup all material possessions even to the
>    extent where he can access only the freely and easily available Samith to
>    be offered to the Guru.
>
>    5.
>
>    Mumukshutvam. The aspirant is so intensely desirous of approaching a
>    Guru that he does not mind doing so even if he were to carry just the
>    freely available Samith as an offering.
>
>    6.
>
>    Humility. The aspirant is not ashamed of openly displaying his poverty
>    by making such an offering.
>
>    Perhaps this would summarize what the Upanishad wants to convey by the
>    use of the word Samitpanih.
>    7.
>
>    Regards
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 1:59 PM, Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>> Dear Sri Jaldhar,
>>
>> >>sa gurumevAbhigachchhetsamitpANiH
>>
>> What is the purpose of going to a guru with "samitpANiH"?
>>
>> If sanYAsA was a necessary condition for a mumukshu sishyA to qualify to
>> receive brahmavidyA, then presumably the shrotriyam brahmaniShtham guru
>> would also necessarily be a sanyAsI, and given up agni kAryA as a result.
>> Of what use is samit to such a guru?
>>
>> Btw, I'm not disputing the requirement for sAdhana chatushtayam or
>> sanyAsA's utility in perfecting those qualifications, merely querying why
>> samitpANih is used here. I don't think the upaniShad would use a term
>> superfluously in general or merely use it as a proxy to denote respect in
>> this particular instance.
>>
>> Did Shvetaketu take up sanyAsA to qualify for the teaching, or for that
>> matter, UddAlaka aruNi?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Venkatraghavan
>> On 23 Mar 2015 06:58, "Jaldhar H. Vyas via Advaita-l" <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>
>> > On Tue, 17 Mar 2015, sreenivasa murthy via Advaita-l wrote:
>> >
>> >  Is mahavakya upadesha has to be given only to sanyasins? Why ?
>> >>
>> >
>> > Something which often gets lost in this discussions is that there are
>> two
>> > basic kinds of sannyasis.  Those who have taken it up a spiritual
>> > discipline with a view to preparing to achieve jnana and those who have
>> > already achieved jnana and therefore are in sannyasa by default because
>> > there is nothing left in this samsara for them to desire.  Both of them
>> > will respond to the mahavakya in a different way.
>> >
>> >  Are not the
>> >> householders entitled for Atmajnana?
>> >>
>> >
>> > As part of a brahmachari's vedadhyayana he also learns the words of the
>> > upanishads and as a grhastha it will be part of his svadhyaya but at
>> this
>> > point it is book-knowledge.  Only by the threefold process of shravana,
>> > manana, and nidhidhyasana can that be turned into jnana.  By that time
>> he
>> > will no longer have any use for samsara.
>> >
>> >  The Vedic Rishis were not sanyasins.
>> >> Yajnavlkya Of Bruhadaranyaka Upanishad was a gRuhasta
>> >>
>> >
>> > And as Maitreyibrahmana shows, he settled all his vast wealth on his
>> wives
>> > and left grhasthashrama.
>> >
>> >  and he taught
>> >> Brahmavidya to Janaka who was a  a King. Ajatashatru who taught
>> >> Brahmavidya
>> >> to Balaki was a king.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Shankaracharya discusses Janaka in the bhashya on Gita 3.20.  Such
>> people
>> > only engage in "play-acting" so that their subjects who lack proper
>> > understanding might not unthinkingly imitate the vairagya of a jnani
>> and be
>> > led astray.
>> >
>> >  Saunaka who was a gruhasta was taught paravidya by Angiras. The very
>> >> first mantra of Mundaka Upanishad states : "sa brahmavidyAM
>> >> sarvavidyApratiShThAm jyEShThaputrAya prAha ||"
>> >>
>> >>
>> > The jyeShTaputra mentioned is atharva who is a mind-born son of brahma
>> > (i.e. prajApati not brahman.) and is not a grhastha.  He taught it to
>> Angih
>> > who taught SatyavAha BhAradvaja who taught a~Ngirasa.  It was he who
>> taught
>> > the great householder (mahAshAlin) shaunaka.
>> >
>> >  So  the Upanishadic tradition is that The Guru imparts Brahmavidya to a
>> >> shishya who approaches Guru with humility.
>> >>
>> >
>> > What the upanishad says is that shaunaka vidhivadupasanna "approached
>> him
>> > [a~Ngirasa] according to ceremony or in the proper manner."  What is
>> that
>> > ceremony or manner (vidhi)?  Why sannyasa of course!  If shaunakas prior
>> > state had been acceptable, there would be no need for a "proper manner".
>> > Interestingly Shankaracharya implies that there was no standard vidhi in
>> > ancient times and it is shaunaka who has formalized it. Be that as it
>> may
>> > shaunaka despite his wealth and power chose to give it up for the sake
>> of
>> > moksha.  That is the point of that story.
>> >
>> >  That is the true and genuine
>> >> tradition. Brahmavidya is not the monopoly of sanyasins . Any man who
>> has
>> >> that intense desire for mukti is entitled for Atmajnana.
>> >>
>> >
>> > He is entitled to desire it but the upanishad goes on to say (1.2.12)
>> >
>> > parikShya lokAnkarmachitAnbrAhmaNo nirvedamAyannAstyakR^itaH kR^itena |
>> > tadviGYAnArthe sa gurumevAbhigachchhetsamitpANiH shrotriyaM
>> brahmaniShTam
>> > ||
>> >
>> > "Having examined the worlds won by karma, let a brAhmaNa be free of
>> desire
>> > and think "there is nothing eternal produced by karma" and with that in
>> > mind approach with samidh in hand, a guru who is learned and immersed in
>> > brahman."
>> >
>> > By "free of desire" it doesn't mean "free of most desires except an
>> iPhone
>> > and a fancy car." and when it says to approach a guru who is
>> brahmaniShTa
>> > "immersed in brahman" it doesn't mean "mostly immersed in brahman except
>> > when making a powerpoint presentation in the weekly sales meeting."!
>> >
>> > On Tue, 17 Mar 2015, sreenivasa murthy via Advaita-l wrote:
>> >
>> >  When Sri Shankara  wrote commentary to Bhagavadgita , he wrote certain
>> >> teachings to suit the needs of the persons of that time. The> same may
>> not
>> >> hold any water in the present times.
>> >>
>> >
>> > And what time would that be?
>> >
>> >  What was possible during the times of Upanishads is also possible
>> during
>> >> the present times.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Exactly.  Sannyasa is just as possible in "present times" as ever :-)
>> >
>> >    The social conditions, living conditions etc. have changed.
>> >>
>> >
>> > And so?  Vedanta is asking the mumukshu to give up "social conditions"
>> Are
>> > you implying this can't be done now?
>> >
>> >  It is absolutely necessary that the method of conveying the fundamental
>> >> metaphysical truths should change  to suit the needs of the present day
>> >> mumukshus.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Any "fundamental truth" which is subject to the vagaries of fashion
>> can't
>> > be very fundamental.  The needs of the mumukshus of today -- to withdraw
>> > from maya and seek satya -- are no different than they ever were so the
>> > method of Vedanta is also no different."
>> >
>> >  It is a matter of deep regret that the clinging to redundant
>> >> ideologies and obsolete sampradayas.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Ha! You regret it so much you joined a group of people learning about
>> > Shankaracharya and his "obsolete" sampradaya.  That sampradaya which if
>> it
>> > had not cling to redundant ideology, today Suleiman Murthy would be
>> > discussing the fine points of the koran on Islam-l.  If as you say
>> humility
>> > is the entry-point to Brahmavidya, you have just disqualified yourself.
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
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