[Advaita-l] Knowledge of Brahman

[V Subrahmanian]

On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 6:51 AM, Harsha Bhat via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Kunthi mathi sir you said,
>
> //////The notion that I am finite is in the mind only, and not in the
> aatma. Hence the study of Vedanta is for that mind who has wrong notions
> about itself and the self.
>
> But according to advaitha ,there is no mind at all !!....because mind
> itself is product of maya!!!..
> Or in other words mind is also ignorance !!!!
>

The Upanishad teaches that mind is the instrument with which alone one can
know the Truth: manasā eva anudraṣṭavyam, neha nānāsti kinchana.  So,
Advaita accepts mind, both as the dravya that contacts ashuddhi, and
therefore, chitta shuddi is required and with that mind one should know the
Truth.  The idea that mind is mithya is only in the pāramārthika state. It
is only with the mind one knows that mind is mithyā.

>
> So,you cannot say that study of vedanta is for that mind who has wrong
> notion about itself and the self...BUT THE STUDY OF VEDANTA IS TO
> COMPLETELY REMOVE MIND...
>

See the above explanation and try to understand it in that light.

>
> But i don't think adi shankaracharya's intention is to remove
> mind...because,while giving vakhyartha for dwe suparne mantra,shankara says
> that second bird is bhudhi,and he says it remains for ever with athma,and
> enjoys athma's swarupa..in moksha.
>

Where has he said that? Pl. state the bhashya sentences.

regards
vs

>
> But this it is against his advaitha ,which says only athma exists....as
> bhudhi a second entity exists,which enjoys athma's swarupa at moksha...
>
> So,please elaborate on this....
>
>
> regards,
> Harsha Bhat
>
> On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 11:18 PM, Harsha Bhat <harsha9519 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > But In advaitha brahman is without swarupa jgnana........
> >
> >
> > Brahman with swarupa jgnana can be called as swayam prakasha, as you said
> > ,when we are woken up we know that we are present ,even without light...
> >
> > But in advaitha brahman is without swarupa jgnana ,hence in advaitha
> > brahman is not swayam praksha...
> >
> > As in deep sleep ,we are not aware that we are present...
> >
> > But vedas call brahman swayam prakasha...that means brahman has swarupa
> > jgnana...that means brahman is not nirguna....as advaithis claim...
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 10:59 PM, Harsha Bhat <harsha9519 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Kunthi mathi sir,
> >>
> >>         You also said,
> >> Oh! That I can see! I can see that I cannot see! – In essence I can see
> >> that is dark without any light – in fact I do not need light to see
> >> darkness or even ignorance since I know that I do not know if there is a
> >> chair or not.
> >>
> >> Here you mean to say that there is no need of knowledge to see
> >> ignorance,or light to see darkness...but,you should have swarupa jgnana
> to
> >> see darkness also...or in other words...in deep sleep you cannot see
> >> darkness...But in advaitha brahman is without swarupa jgnana,how the
> >> brahman without swarupa jgnna can see darkness or ignorance?????
> >>
> >>
> >> And Also...
> >>
> >> Q. Sir, Are you there in the room since you said it is too dark that you
> >> cannot see anything?
> >> A. Of course I know I am there. I do not need light to see myself as I
> am
> >> self-revealing to myself! I am aprameyam not an object (with gunas) for
> me
> >> to see or to know! I am self-existing and self-conscious entity.
> >>
> >> But,I am not self-revealing to myself when I am in deep sleep no sir?...
> >> When I am in deep sleep,I consciousness is not revealing to myself no
> >> sir?...then how do you say that I consciousness is self -revealing or
> >> swayam prakasha TO MYSELF?
> >>
> >> HERE WHAT I ADD IS, I SHOULD HAVE LIGHT OF SWARUPA JGNANA TO REVEAL
> >> MYSELF,I AM NOT REVEALING TO MY SELF WITHOUT SWARUPA GNANA.FOR EXAMPLE
> IN
> >> DEEP SLEEP WITHOUT SWARUPA GNANA I AM NOT SELF REVEALING TO MY SELF...
> >>
> >> On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 10:32 PM, Harsha Bhat <harsha9519 at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Kunthi -mathi sir,you said
> >>>
> >>> Q. Sir, Are you there in the room since you said it is too dark that
> you
> >>> cannot see anything?
> >>> A. Of course I know I am there. I do not need light to see myself as I
> >>> am self-revealing to myself! I am aprameyam not an object (with gunas)
> for
> >>> me to see or to know! I am self-existing and self-conscious entity.
> >>>
> >>> But,I am not self-revealing to myself when I am in deep sleep no
> sir?...
> >>> When I am in deep sleep,I consciousness is not revealing to myself no
> >>> sir?...then how do you say that I consciousness is self -revealing or
> >>> swayam prakasha?
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 6:27 PM, Harsha Bhat <harsha9519 at gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >>>> From: Harsha Bhat <harsha9519 at gmail.com>
> >>>> Date: Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 3:02 PM
> >>>> Subject: Fwd: [Advaita-l] Knowledge of Brahman
> >>>> To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <
> >>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >>>> From: Harsha Bhat <harsha9519 at gmail.com>
> >>>> Date: Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 8:40 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Knowledge of Brahman
> >>>> To: "Jaldhar H. Vyas" <jaldhar at braincells.com>, A discussion group
> for
> >>>> Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Jaldar sir,
> >>>>                            One interesting point here,
> >>>>
> >>>>                       According to advaitha in moksha or in  turya
> >>>> state,there will not be any swarupa jgnana,or knowledge of self  to
> athman.
> >>>>
> >>>> So,my question is ,if a person has swarupa jgnana ,then he may get
> >>>> affected by swarupa-agjnana or (maya).
> >>>>
> >>>> But one who don't have swarupa jgnana ,(like stone)...will never get
> >>>> swarupa agnana...
> >>>>
> >>>> Or in other words maya or avaidhya can never affect nirguna...and make
> >>>> him feel that he is finite...
> >>>>
> >>>> So,how you will prove the creation of this world here ...according to
> >>>> advaitha?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> regards,
> >>>> Harsha Bhat
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 11:49 AM, Jaldhar H. Vyas <
> >>>> jaldhar at braincells.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, 7 Nov 2015, Harsha Bhat via Advaita-l wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  We get the moksha through the knowledge of brahman according to
> >>>>>> vedas,but
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 1)Infinite cannot be known by finite.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The finite does not actually exist.  It only appears to do so because
> >>>>> of maya.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 2)Nirguna can never be known ,because suguna can be known through
> >>>>>> suguna's
> >>>>>> guna,but nirguna can never be known,because he is attribute less.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As a consequence of 1, when the delusionary gunas are negated then
> >>>>> what is left is the nirguna brahman.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 3)Nirguna cannot have knowledge.As knowledge is also a guna.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, 7 Nov 2015, Harsha Bhat via Advaita-l wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sorry small change to my third point said above,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 3)Nirguna cannot have knowledge,as HAVING knowledge is also a
> guna...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> No only the conventional (vyavaharic) knowledge which is based on the
> >>>>> premise of duality is a guna.  From the paramarthic standpoint you
> do not
> >>>>> need to "know" Brahman because you are and always have been
> Brahman.  Only
> >>>>> maya deluded you into forgetting that.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
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