[Advaita-l] Fwd: Knowledge of Brahman

[Harsha Bhat]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Harsha Bhat <harsha9519 at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Knowledge of Brahman
To: "Jaldhar H. Vyas" <jaldhar at braincells.com>


Jaldar sir,
                        Completely understood,
But the very next mantra says...

samane vrikshe purusho nimagno

     hy anishaya shocati muhyamanah

jushtam sada pashyaty anyam isham

     asya mahimanam eti vita-shokah


Which says ,even in mukthi there is this (Two birds beda ) right?...

That means this suksha sharira is still there in moksha ??which is against
advaitha which says only brahman is there in moksha..

On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Sri Subrahmanian,
> Very fine observations, indeed. Thanks for sharing.
>
> Regards,
> Venkatraghavan
>
> On 11 Nov 2015 06:42, "V Subrahmanian" <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > A few years ago, Vidwan Sri Mani Dravid Sastrigal, in a Tamil talk on
> the references to 'bheda' in the Brahma sutras had made an interesting
> observation:
> >
> > In the Dvṣ suparṇa mantra the word 'tayoḥ anyaḥ pippalam svādvatti' does
> not show any real difference between the two: jiva and Ishvara.  For a true
> bheda to be indicated there is a vyakarana requirement, as per a sutra,
> that a panchami has to be used. Hence, the mantra, if it wanted to show
> jiva as different from Ishvara would have to say: tasmāt anyaḥ.  The tayoḥ
> anyaḥ only means 'of the two, one is doing this....and the other
> is...doing...'
> >
> > And in the subsequent mantra: the word 'anyam īśam' there is the word
> anya which means 'other'.  Here too, the reference is not to show any
> difference between the jiva and Ishvara but only that jiva who is
> identified with the body, now identifies himself with the 'other' that is
> Atma, which is only 'other' than/from the body.
> >
> > So, there is no place anywhere in the Veda where there is a real (as per
> the non-advaitins) difference-indicating word is present.  On the other
> hand, there are several aikya-teaching sentences in the Veda which alone
> have become the problematic ones for the non-advaitins forcing them to
> labor giving convoluted and extremely artificial explanations to them.
> >
> > regards
> > vs
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 12:02 PM, Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Sri Harsha,
> >>
> >> You said:
> >>
> >> "In dwe suparne matra says even in moksha there are two
> birds,So,according
> >> to vedas only second bird (Bhudhi) exists even in moksha"
> >>
> >> This is not true. Not every statement in VedA is a mahAvAkya talking
> about
> >> paramArtha satyam. The dvA suparNa mantra refers to vyavahAra only,
> where
> >> the second bird (chidAbhAsa) is apparently engaged in activities, while
> the
> >> first (kUtastha) is the the silent sAkshi. This mantra does not talk
> about
> >> their aikyam explicitly, but that doesn't mean that their aikyam is not
> >> true.  There are several other vAkyams that talk about aikyam, which is
> the
> >> ultimate reality, or as you say, "what exists in moksha".
> >>
> >> In general, bheda vAkyas can be reconciled with abheda (the former as
> >> vyAhArika satya, and the latter being the pAramArthika satya), but if
> you
> >> take bhedA as ultimate reality, the abhedA vAkyas will be rendered
> >> meaningless, and no VedA vAkya can be dismissed as meaningless.
> >>
> >> In interpreting Veda mantras one needs to consider the VedA as a whole,
> >> because if one statement/mantra is taken in isolation it may lead only
> to a
> >> partial understanding, sometimes even a wrong one.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Venkatraghavan
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