[Advaita-l] dva suparNA

[H S Chandramouli]

Sri Venkatraghavan Ji,



Reg  << "Hence in my view it is sufficient , in understanding the
Bhashya/Shruti ,
 to distinguish between Jiva on the one hand and Brahman(
nirguna)/Iswara(saguna)/Kutastha/Sakshi on the other ( to be understood
contextually and according to individual temperament of the sadhaka)."

In general, I would tend to agree with you. Based on the context, one can
understand which term is being referred to. However, in this case, as
pointed by you, with respect to the same mantra, ShankarA seems to refer to
a sarvagya Isvara in one place and nirguNa chaitanyam in another. I would
like to understand how to interpret Shankara's seemingly different
treatment of the second bird in Mundaka vs Paingi Rahasya Brahmana (as
occurring in BSB 1.2.12).

Any thoughts on this would be helpful. >>



 Since you are following Vichara Sagara talks by Swami Paramarthananda
closely, it is easier for me to answer your question better by referring
you to the relevant portion therein. Please refer to topic 185, pp 103-105
of the book and the associated talk by SP. I do not recollect the talk
number. I am sure you are keeping track of it. From memory , I recall that
in his talk SP mentioned that he would give the gist of issue ( Brahma and
Iswara ) at that stage of his talks and that he would revert back to it at
a later stage for more elaborate discussion  after  the entire subject of
Vichara Sagara is completed. Otherwise , according to him , it is difficult
to grasp the full significance of the issue.



 The general gist of it is that Mayavishishta Chaitanyam is the Vachyartha
for the word “ Brahman “ and Mayarahita Chaitanyam is the Lakshyartha for
the same word. Accordingly  both the words “ Iswara “ and “ Brahma “ lead
to the same knowledge/understanding , and should not be treated as
different entities .



 You may like to refer to the book and talk for clarity.



Regards



Chandramouli

On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 4:21 PM, Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Dear Sri Subbuji,
> Once again, a fantastic email. We are really grateful for your
> contributions!
>
> With respect to the mundaka bhAshyam, by using the terms सर्वज्ञः and
> सत्त्वोपाधिरीश्वर:
> in describing the second bird AchArya seems to be indeed referring to
> Iswara.
>
> Whereas in Brahma SUtra 1.2.12 by using terms such as "सर्व्सम्सारधर्मातीत:
> ब्रह्मस्वभाव चैतन्य्मात्र्स्वरूप:" and  "अविक्रियात् क्षेत्रग्यस्य", he
> seems to be referring to nirguNa Brahman.
>
> If it is nirguNa Brahman in both places, why did AchArya use the terms
> सर्वज्ञः and सत्त्वोपाधिरीश्वर:?
>
> Jaldhar ji,
>
> "I think the crucial concept in the two birds metaphor is embodiment.  It
> is the identification with pleasure and pain (and all the other pairs of
> dualities) which has made the first bird suffer.  But within the living
> body there is also calm and freedom which is represented by the second bird
> and to recognize this will eventually lead the embodied 'I' beyond limited
> identification with a body."
>
> I agree completely.
>
>
> Chandramouli ji
>
> "Hence in my view it is sufficient , in understanding the Bhashya/Shruti ,
>  to distinguish between Jiva on the one hand and Brahman(
> nirguna)/Iswara(saguna)/Kutastha/Sakshi on the other ( to be understood
> contextually and according to individual temperament of the sadhaka)."
>
> In general, I would tend to agree with you. Based on the context, one can
> understand which term is being referred to. However, in this case, as
> pointed by you, with respect to the same mantra, ShankarA seems to refer to
> a sarvagya Isvara in one place and nirguNa chaitanyam in another. I would
> like to understand how to interpret Shankara's seemingly different
> treatment of the second bird in Mundaka vs Paingi Rahasya Brahmana (as
> occurring in BSB 1.2.12).
>
> Any thoughts on this would be helpful.
>
> Regards,
> Venkatraghavan
> On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 9:41 AM, V Subrahmanian
> <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
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