[Advaita-l] Even a Buffalo can be saguṇa Brahman

[Venkatesh Murthy]

Namaste

Like you said below if Mimamsakas have no respect and belief in
Ishwara the Advaita Vedantis will not agree. In Advaita Vedanta
Ishwara must give Karma Phala. And there are many Advaita Vedantis
doing worship for Ishwara. This belief is there for both Grushasthas
and Sanyasis. Therefore Vyavahare Bhattanayaha is not correct about
Ishwara.

I think in the modern age it is not possible for anybody to be Pure
Mimamsaka. There may be some Agnihotris here and there but they also
cannot do everything like pure Mimamsakas like Soma Yajna every year.
It is very costly firstly. There are not many Vaidikas having
knowledge of Srauta karmas. It has become a vicious circle. There is
no demand for Srauta priests because there are not many Yajnas because
there are not many Srauta priests. The vicious circle will keep on
reducing the number of Srauta karma knowing people.

On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Durga Janaswamy via Advaita-l
<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> "You said a man cannot mix up relations with mother, sister, wife,
> daughter. But here you are mixing up Vyavahara for Gruhasthas and
> Sanyasis. You cannot say Sanyasis must also behave like Bhattas and do
> lot of Vedic Karmas. Sanyasis are not bound by Karma like Gruhasthas.
> Gruhastha must worship his family god and the Panchayatana Devatas.
> But a Sanyasi will not have this restriction. Bhatta Nayaha is only
> for Gruhasthas"
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Hari Om,
>
> Pranams.
>
> A. व्यवहारे भट्टनयः  (vyavahAre bhaTTanayaH) is in the context of tri-satta
> (paramarthika satta, vyavaharika satta and pratibhasika satta).     This is
> not in the context of  ashrama.
>
> If you accept tri-satta, then in  Vedanta,
> i. at paramarthika satta, there is only one reality, advaita and no
> duality,  there is no pramata, pramana and prameya.
> ii. at vyavaharika satta, there is duality.  Here comes vyavahAre
> bhaTTanayaH.
> In vyavahara, there is pramata, prameya and pramana.  Also pramana system
> comes into being with pramata as locus.
> Nyaya has 4 pramanas, Prabhakara - purva mimamsa has 5 pramanas and
> Kumarila Bhatta purva mimamsa has 6 pramanas.
> Vedanta does not follow Nyaya system but follows Bhatta's purva mimamsa for
> pramanas. So Vedanta has 6 pramanas.
> It may be noted the prasthana traya (which include Brahma Sutra) do not
> discuss  pramanas per se.
>
> If you do not accept vyavaharika satta, then  there is no ' BhaTTa nayaH'.
>
>
> B.   About   "worshipping family god and the Panchayatana Devatas"
>
> In Purva Mimamsa  Devatas donot have vigrahas,  the gods have no separate
> independent existence other than the mantras. Purva Mimamsa
> is nirIshwaravAda and the mimamsakas believe that Isvara doesn't dispense
> the fruits of our actions because, according to them, the Vedic works we
> perform give rewards on their own. We earn merit or demerit according to
> how the Vedas and sastras view our actions. So it is our karma that brings
> its rewards or retribution, as the case may be, not Isvara.
>
>
> Thank you and regards
> -- durga prasad
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:22 PM, Venkatesh Murthy via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>>  Namaste
>>  On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 11:11 AM, Durga Janaswamy via Advaita-l
>> <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>> > And one more point:
>> >
>> > Bhagawan Sankaracharya says व्यवहारे भट्टनयः  (vyavahAre bhaTTanayaH).
>> >
>> > Regards
>> > -- durga prasad
>> >
>> You said a man cannot mix up relations with mother, sister, wife,
>> daughter. But here you are mixing up Vyavahara for Gruhasthas and
>> Sanyasis. You cannot say Sanyasis must also behave like Bhattas and do
>> lot of Vedic Karmas. Sanyasis are not bound by Karma like Gruhasthas.
>> Gruhastha must worship his family god and the Panchayatana Devatas.
>> But a Sanyasi will not have this restriction. Bhatta Nayaha is only
>> for Gruhasthas.
>>
>> Sri V. Subrahmanian said -
>> Does the above wording exist in the Bhāṣyam? I could not find it in a
>> search of the Advaita Shāradā resource. It could be the sense of the above
>> maxim that Shankara has said.  In case you are aware of any such instance,
>> pl. point out.
>>
>> In Upadesha Panchaka Adi Sankara has said Vedo Nityamadheeyataam
>> Tadudita Karma Swanushtheeyataam. We have to always study Veda and do
>> the Karmas given in it. I think from this someone must have concluded
>> we have to be like Bhattas when we are in Gruhastha Ashrama.
>>
>>
>> > On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 9:26 PM, Durga Janaswamy <janaswami at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hari Om,
>> >> Pranams.
>> >>
>> >> The article says
>> >> "In Advaita, as taught by Shankaracharya and handed down in the
>> tradition,
>> >> there is no strict prescription of such and such entity alone should be
>> the
>> >> saguna Brahman."
>> >> "Since the aspirants' make-up can be varied, whichever method that suits
>> >> one is good enough.  Ultimately, one has to come to the Goal. Such means
>> >> are infinite. The means do not matter at that stage. "
>> >>
>> >> Here are the points worth noting:
>> >> 1. I listened to two Mahatmas saying that only those objects mentioned
>> in
>> >> Sastra can be used for worship.  A person has a choice with in these
>> >> specified objects only.
>> >>
>> >> For example salagrama stone can be worshiped as Vishnu. This is
>> mentioned
>> >> in Sastra.
>> >> A skull dug up from grave-yard should not be used to worship as Vishnu
>> as
>> >> this is not mentioned in Sastra.
>> >>
>> >> 2.  We should not mix up Vedanta and Vyavahara.
>> >> Vedanata is at  paramartha level, there is only reality - advaita, no
>> >> duality.  Here there is no worshiper and no worshiped.
>> >>
>> >> 3. Vyavahara happens only in duality. Even though the duality is
>> illusory,
>> >> still duality cannot be ignored in Vyavahara.
>> >> If Devadatta has a mother, wife, sister and daughter, Devadatta should
>> >> maintain that distinction. Devadatta should not mix-up one with another.
>> >>
>> >> 4. Worship comes under Vyavahara. Vedanta should not be mixed up with
>> >> worship.
>> >> While worshiping, a person should follow relevant pramana. For example,
>> if
>> >> a person is doing Chandi Homa, he should do the  homa as prescribed.
>> The
>> >> pramana can be Sastra or his guru or the book one is following.
>> >>
>> >> Regards
>> >> -- durga prasad
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 3:14 AM, V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <
>> >> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> An article on the above topic is available here for download:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> http://www.mediafire.com/view/8v2ytlai8qtnxaa/Even_a_Buffalo_can_be_sagu%E1%B9%87a_Brahman_FP.pdf
>> >>>
>> >>> regards
>> >>> subbu
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>>
>> --
>> Regards
>>
>> -Venkatesh
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-- 
Regards

-Venkatesh