[Advaita-l] Please tell the meaning of this verse from bagavath geetha verse 2.45

[Venkatraghavan S]

Hello Sri Chandramouliji,

I agree with your observations. The point here is Krishna is exhorting
Arjuna into the path of karma yogA. Therefore, here His motive is to get
Arjuna to perform his svadharmA, but to perform it in a manner that will
lead him on to jnAna mArga. To commence jnAna yogA, Arjuna needs chitta
shuddhi first.

Krishna is telling Arjuna here to not use the karma kANda of VedA to
perform kAmya or prAyashchitta karmA, which have the nature of propagating
samsAra, but only focus on performing his svadharmA in the form of nitya/
naimittika karmAs,with the aim of  acquiring chitta shuddhi.

On a slightly different note:

One other interesting point to note here is Adi Shankara's departure from
Sri Jaldhar's vyAkhyA of 2.45 in the meaning of आत्मवान्.

In this particular context, Adi Shankara takes the meaning of आत्मा to be
the mind, not the nitya shuddha, buddha आत्मा. He says that by आत्मवान् भव,
Krishna means अप्रमत्तो भव, meaning do not have a distracted mind when you
are performing karma yogA - be mindful in the performance of karma yogA.

Regards,
Venkatraghavan
On 11 Oct 2015 13:24, "H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l" <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Sri Jaldhar Ji observed
>
>
> << [1] the produced universe is created from sattva, rajas, and tamas.  It
> and its objects are created, exist for a length of time, either short or
> long but in any case finite, and then they become subject to destruction.
> The karmakanda of the Vedas (and therefore all the other shastras derived
> from them) are concerned with those things therefore those people who treat
> such things as real must abide by the dictates of the shastras concerning
> those things.
>
> However the jnanakanda of the Vedas (and therefore the shastras derived
> from it including this very gita.) speak of something else, Brahman which
> is beyond the three Gunas, not created and not subject to destruction.
> Bhagavan advises Arjuna to move away from the samsara composed of three
> gunas and towards the Brahman of no gunas. >> .
>
>
> Sri Venkatraghavan Ji observed
>
>
> << Adi Shankara's BhAshyam has a slightly different explanation than yours
> for
> the term निस्त्रैगुण्यो भवार्जुन.
>
> Shankara BhagavatpAda defines निस्त्रैगुण्यो भव as निष्कामो भव, or be
> beyond desires for samsAra viShayA.
>
> Krishna immediately before uses त्रैगुण्यविषयाः,  for which bahuvrIhi
> Shankara gives the vigraha vAkya as त्रैगुण्य=संसारो विषयाः; प्रकाशयितव्याः
> येषां ते = वेदाः.
>
> So Shankara is saying that when we consider त्रैगुण्याः as संसारो विषयाः in
> the word त्रैगुण्याविषयाः, we should use the same meaning in the
> immediately occurring निस्त्रैगुण्यो भव, which should mean, be without
> desires for विषयाः, not transcend the guNAs. >> .
>
>
> A slight change in emphasis in Sri Jaldhar Ji's interpretation would lead
> to a convergence of the two apparently differing views. त्रैगुण्यविषया
> वेदाः is to be understood as << Vedas ( कर्म काण्ड) prescribe only karmas
> which lead to samsaric results comprising the three Gunas >> . Nodoubt Sri
> Krishna is advising Arjuna to move away from such samsaric results. However
> this can be achieved only through Jnana which cannot be prescribed ( not
> susceptible to a vidhi ) . Hence He is advising Arjuna to follow the Karma
> marga in a manner which leads ultimately to Jnana , by following the Karma
> Yoga path . Thus  निस्त्रैगुण्यो भवार्जुन is to be interpreted as <<
> निष्कामो
> भव >> ( be free from Desires) meaning thereby << follow the path of
> overcoming Desires >> or << follow Karma Yoga >>. This is what Sri
> Venkatraghavan Ji has also said , as I understand .
>
>
> How exactly one should follow this path ?? Sri Krishna answers this in the
> third and fourth sections of this Sloka << निर्द्वन्द्वो नित्यसत्वस्धो
> निर्योगक्शेम आत्मवान् >> . निर्द्वन्द्वो means forbearence ,
> नित्यसत्वस्धो meaning
> engaged mainly in satvic activities like tapas/dhyana/silence etc ,
> निर्योगक्शेम
> meaning growing out of the fondness for both Yoga ( urge to get new things
> ) and Kshema ( urge to retain what is owned ) . आत्मवान् of course refers
> to one who should practice Karma Yoga in the above manner.
>
>
> I have tried to be as brief as possible. I think this also answers some of
> the points made by Sri Krishna moorthy Ji.
>
>
> Regards
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 12:42 PM, Jaldhar H. Vyas via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 11 Oct 2015, Harsha Bhat via Advaita-l wrote:
> >
> > traiguNyaviSayA vEdA nistraiguNyO bhavArjuna /
> >> nirdvandvO nityasatvasthO niryOgakshEma AtmavAn //
> >>
> >> Please tell the meaning of the above verse....
> >>
> >>
> > "The Vedas which tell of that which is composed of the three Gunas, Be
> > beyond those three gunas Arjuna[2].  Beyond the pairs [2], always abiding
> > in sattva[3], free from material pursuit[4], and possesed of Atma.[5]"
> >
> > [1] the produced universe is created from sattva, rajas, and tamas.  It
> > and its objects are created, exist for a length of time, either short or
> > long but in any case finite, and then they become subject to destruction.
> > The karmakanda of the Vedas (and therefore all the other shastras derived
> > from them) are concerned with those things therefore those people who
> treat
> > such things as real must abide by the dictates of the shastras concerning
> > those things.
> >
> > However the jnanakanda of the Vedas (and therefore the shastras derived
> > from it including this very gita.) speak of something else, Brahman which
> > is beyond the three Gunas, not created and not subject to destruction.
> > Bhagavan advises Arjuna to move away from the samsara composed of three
> > gunas and towards the Brahman of no gunas.
> >
> > [2] The pairs of opposites such as light and dark, heat and cold,
> pleasure
> > and pain  etc. or in a nutshell, duality.  Duality is the characteristic
> of
> > samsara and non-duality is the characteristic of Brahman.
> >
> > [3] But renouncing the three gunas is easier said than done.  Arjuna for
> > instance, is a soldier on a battlefield not a philosopher.  So the next
> > best thing is to atleast abide in sattva the guna of purity and goodness.
> >
> > [4] yogakshema which I have translated as material pursuit has two
> > aspects, the urge to keep what one "owns" and the urge to acquire new
> > things.
> >
> > [5] The -vAn suffix to a sanskrit noun makes it an adjective signifying
> > possession of that noun as a characteristic.  For example a synonym for
> > Himalaya is Himavan "possesed of snow" because those mountains are very
> > snowy.  Vidvan means scholar because the defining characteristic of a
> > scholar is possessing vidya or knowledge.  An atmavan is a person whose
> > characteristic is atma.  But doesn't everyone have an atma? Yes but most
> do
> > not think of it except as a specific and ephemeral name and form.  Only
> for
> > a few are the notions that "I am the atma" and "this atma is brahman"
> their
> > paramount characteristics so only they can be described as atmavan.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
> >
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