[Advaita-l] mithyA and abhAva chatuShTaya - Vaadiraaja's Nyayaratnavali Slokas 43-46

[Venkatesh Murthy]

Namaste,

On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 6:55 PM, H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l
<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> Pranams.
>
> 2-Satta vada refers to Drishti Srishti vada in which only two levels of
> Reality (Satta ) are recognized , termed Paramarthika satta and
> Pratibhasika satta.
>
> 3-Satta vada refers to Srishti Drishti vada in which three levels of
> Reality ( Satta ) are recognized , termed Paramarthika, Vyavaharika and
> Pratibhasika.
>
> Pratibhasika Satta of the former version includes both the Vyavaharika and
> Pratibhasika sattas of the latter version. Generally it is the 3-Satta
> version which one comes across in advaitic commentaries and discussions.
>
Instead of sitting idly on Bharat Bandh day I thought I should write
something about the Pratibhasika and Vyavaharika Sattas.

Vaadiraaja has asked this interesting question to Advaitis. Then he is
making allegation Advaiti behaviour is like killing his own mother.
रजतार्थी भ्रमे जाते तदैव तदपेक्षया ।
तत्र गत्वा बाधकं च तत्काले प्रतिपद्यते ॥
A person desiring silver goes to find it and gets the Shell Silver
Illusion. Examining the Shell Silver the Illusion is cancelled then
and there itself.
तदनर्थी भ्रमे जातेऽप्युपेक्ष्य स्वगृहं गतः ।
बाधं च नैव जानीते को विशेषस्तयोर्वद ॥
A person not desiring silver and seeing the Shell Silver will ignore
it and go home. For him there is no cancellation of Shell Silver
Illusion. Tell me what is the difference between the two?

Vaadiraaja is making this example. There are two persons A and B. A is
interested in getting silver. If he sees Shell Silver Illusion he will
examine it and find it is not silver but Ilusion Silver only. It is
Pratibhasika Silver. Therefore his Illusion has ended. Person B is not
at all interested in silver even if it is lying in front of him. He
will see the Shell Silver Illusion. But he will not even examine it
because he is not interested. He ignores the Shell Silver and goes
home. For him there is no Illusion cancellation.

What is the difference between the two? Vaadiraaja is saying Advaiti
will simply say there is no difference. Because Pratibhasika and
Vyavaharika are the same for him. Person A has Vyavaharika knowledge
it is not Silver but Shell. But Shell is also Illusion only. It is not
Brahman. Person B has Pratibhasika knowledge of Silver. Both Shell and
Silver are Illusions only. There is no difference between them. This
is the Advaiti argument. If you take there are only two Sattas
Paramarthika and Pratibhasika  this will be the result. But if you
take three Sattas Paramarthika, Vyavaharika and Pratibhasika the
Advaiti will say Person A has Vyavaharika knowledge and Person B has
Pratibhasika knowledge. There is a difference between them here.

अनिवर्त्य महाभ्रान्तिजनकोन्मादरोगवान् ।
सर्वोपकारिवेदादेर्हीनादपि च हीनताम् ।
यो ब्रूते वैदिकच्छद्मी हन्ति मातरमेव सः ।
विश्वापकारकरणं तस्य लीलेति मे मतिः ॥
The Advaiti is a maniac with a mental disease from the Uncancellable
Great Illusion. He has the disguise of  having a Veda base. The Vedas
are doing good to all but he is saying they have a very poor status.
It is like he is killing his own mother. I feel doing harm to the
world is his Leela.

Vaadiraaja has not understood Advaita theories. In dreamless sleep
will Vaadiraaja see his mother? No. Will he see the world objects and
people of the world in dreamless sleep? No. Can we say he has killed
his mother in dreamless sleep? No. Can we say he has done harm to the
world in dreamless sleep? No. Will he hear Vedas in dreamless sleep?
No. Then why is he blaming Advaitis of killing mother and harming the
world? Because he has not even understood dreamless sleep. First he
must understand dreamless sleep and then only he can understand
Moksha. He is very far from understanding Moksha.

Taking Vyavaharika Illusory objects to be real is a bigger mental
disease than realization of the objects unreality. Those people are
the maniacs because they search for happiness in worldly objects
thinking they are real.


> Regards
>
> On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 1:26 PM, S Venkatraman <svenkat52 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Pranams Sir,
>>
>> Can you please let me know what is meant by 2-Satta and 3-Satta vada? Many
>> thanks and regards,
>>
>> Venkatraman
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On 01-Sep-2015, at 10:19 am, H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > Pranams.
>> >
>> > As I mentioned in my earlier mail, rope-snake illustration is given for
>> > understanding what is meant by experienced nonexistence. It is not in the
>> > context of 2-satta or 3-satta vada.  Whether 2-satta vada or 3-satta
>> vada,
>> > what I have mentioned earlier about Mithyatvam is applicable.
>> >
>> > Regards
>> >
>> > On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 9:50 AM, Durga Janaswamy <
>> janaswamy2001 at hotmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hari Om,
>> >> Pranams
>> >>
>> >> Your observation looks like a case of 2-satta vada.    Is your
>> observation
>> >> same even in case of 3-satta vada?
>> >>
>> >> Rope-snake illustration -- is it an example of 2-satta vada   or
>>  3-satta
>> >> vada?
>> >>
>> >> Thank you and regards
>> >> -- durga prasad
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ________________________________
>> >>> Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 11:59:32 +0530
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] mithyA and abhAva chatuShTaya
>> >>> From: hschandramouli at gmail.com
>> >>> To: janaswamy2001 at hotmail.com; advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> There is no correspondence between mithya ( मिथ्या ) and abhava
>> >>> chatushtaya ( अभाव चतुष्टय ) . AtyantAbhAva ( अत्यन्ताभाव ) corresponds
>> >>> to asat ( असत् absolute nonexistence ) of vedanta. Other three abhAvAs
>> >>> are not considered valid in vedanta. Mithya ( मिथ्या ) is sat-asat
>> >>> vilakshana ( सदसद्विलक्षण different from both sat and asat ) . It can
>> >>> be explained as experienced nonexistence as opposed to asat (असत् ) (
>> >>> atyantAbhAva अत्यन्ताभाव ) which can be explained as nonexperienced
>> >>> nonexistence. The common illustration cited for purposes of
>> >>> understanding is that of rope-serpent. However , according to vedanta ,
>> >>> entire Creation comes under the category of experienced nonexistence (
>> >>> jaganmithya ) .
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Regards
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 7:07 AM, Durga Janaswamy via Advaita-l
>> >>> <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org<mailto:
>> >> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>> मिथ्या  and  अभाव चतुष्टय
>> >>>
>> >>> mithyA  is characterized by abhAva  chatuShTaya
>> >>>
>> >>> abhAva chatuShTaya are
>> >>>
>> >>> 1. prAgabhAva  प्रागभाव
>> >>>
>> >>> 2. pradhavMsAbhAva  प्रधव्ंसाभाव
>> >>>
>> >>> 3. anyonyAbhAva   अन्योन्याभाव
>> >>>
>> >>> 4. atyantAbhAva  अत्यन्ताभाव
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Please explain abhAva chatuShTaya and mithyA.   What is the exact
>> >>> sentence used to say that mithyA has abhAva chatuShTaya?
>> >>>
>> >>> thank you and regards
>> >>> -- durga prasad
>> >>>
>> >>>
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>> >>
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-- 
Regards

-Venkatesh