[Advaita-l] mithyA and abhAva chatuShTaya - Vaadiraaja's Nyayaratnavali Slokas 43-46

[Venkatraghavan S]

Namaste Sri Venkatesh.

>>Svatantra Satya has Pravrutti according to His own Sveccha. He can act
as He wants. But Paratantra Satya Jeeva cannot act as he wants. He has
to follow rules made by Svatantra Satya.

Yes,  I believe what we hold as Isvara, is held as Brahman according to
Dvaita. They believe in SaguNa Brahman to be the only Brahman( ie they are
not willing to believe in the existence of Brahman without guNas). That
SaguNa Brahman has svatantra satyam.

Whereas, we hold NirguNa Brahman to have paramArtha satyam - as a result
guNas such as kartrtvam, bhoktrtvam, pramAtrtvam do not belong to our
Brahman. The question of Brahman acting with sveccha doesn't arise for us,
because Brahman cannot act at all in our philosophy.

Regards,
Venkatraghavan
On 8 Sep 2015 08:20, "Venkatesh Murthy via Advaita-l" <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

>  Namaste
>  On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 10:42 AM, V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l
> <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> > Dear Sri Durgaprasad ji,
> >
> > The point being made in these posts is: Dvaita admits ONLY Viṣṇu
> (Brahman)
> > to have Swatantra Sattā/satya. Everything else derive their
> > reality/existence from Brahman and therefore are categorized as
> 'paratantra
> > sattā/satya.'   Naturally, they do not admit the Veda to have Swatantra
> > sattā nor can they say that the Veda enjoys the same level of sattā as
> > Brahman in which  case there will be two entities having Swatantra satya:
> > Brahman and Veda which position is not correct even according to them.
> > Thus, in conclusion, for them too, like advaitins, the Veda has only a
> > second level, a dependent, borrowed existence and not the first class
> > existence.
> >
> > Advaitins openly hold that the Veda belongs to the Vyāvahārika satya.
>
> And Sri Venkataraghavan said -
> 'If B is non different from A, but appears to be different, i.e the
> difference is only an illusion, then as long as the illusion is
> perceived, you can say that the dependent thing is eternal in the
> lower order of reality (illusion) but not in the highest order of
> reality (the truth). The independent thing is eternal in all orders of
> reality, but it can be the ONLY eternal, independent thing.'
>
> I think the difference between the two sides is Dvaitis also say the
> Svatantra Satya has Pravrutti according to His own Sveccha. He can act
> as He wants. But Paratantra Satya Jeeva cannot act as he wants. He has
> to follow rules made by Svatantra Satya.
>
> Advaitis cannot agree to this because if you say Svatantra Satta means
> freedom to act as you like this is not Brahman. Brahman cannot have
> any action. It is Actionless in Advaita. But in Dvaita the Para Brahma
> Vishnu will act. He is born again and again. Sambhavaami Yuge Yuge.
>
>
> >
> > regards
> > vs
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 5:24 AM, Durga Janaswamy via Advaita-l <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Hari Om,
> >>
> >> Pranams.
> >>
> >> For the last few days, I am not getting emails from Advaita-l mailing
> list.
> >>
> >> In the archives, I saw the following in one of the emails on the
> subject:
> >>
> >> "Good point, but here the question is not whether VedAs are svatantram
> or
> >> paratantram, but whether they have svatantra sattA or paratantra sattA?
> >> If something depends on something else for its existence, it has no
> >> independent existence of its own. This is the advaita position: that
> VedAs
> >> themselves have no svatantra sattA- they ultimately have to depend on
> >> Brahman for their existence."
> >>
> >> Vedas being apauruSeya (अपौरुषेय), the relation between Brahman and
> Vedas
> >> need to be understood carefully. It is discussed  in  Brahma Sutra:
> 1.1.3
> >> shAstrayonitvAt (शास्त्रयोनित्वात्) under two heads:
> >>
> >> 1. (Brahman is omniscient)  because of (Its) being the source of the
> >> scriptures.
> >>
> >> 2. (Brahman is not known from any other source), since the scriptures
> are
> >> the valid means of Its knowledge.
> >>
> >> "The Vedas are given out by the Supreme Being at the beginning of each
> >> cycle of creation without effort as in breathing out. But even He does
> not
> >> have liberty in creating the Vedas. He creates them exactly in the same
> way
> >> as they were in the previous kalpa. That in turn is in the same form as
> in
> >> the kalpa previous to it. Thus the same Vedas are given out again and
> again
> >> in each kalpa. Creation is beginningless and so there is no such thing
> as
> >> the first creation of the Vedas. Though the Supreme Being gives out the
> >> Vedas in every kalpa, he has no liberty in creating them. It is because
> of
> >> this lack of absolute freedom in creating that the Vedas are called
> >> ‘apaurusheya’."
> >>
> >>
> >> Please see the following link (Brahmasutra 1.1.3 -- शास्त्रयोनित्वात्
> >> Translation of the lectures of Dr. Mani Dravid Sastri)
> >>
> >> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bw-rceu2TxMUakQ3Q09jeU5ORjg
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> thank you and regards
> >> -- durga prasad
> >> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> --
> Regards
>
> -Venkatesh
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