[Advaita-l] mithyA and abhAva chatuShTaya - Vaadiraaja's Nyayaratnavali Slokas 43-46

[Durga Janaswamy]

Hari Om,
Pranams

When the snake itself does not exist, where is the question of dependency?

thanks and regards
-- durga prasad

________________________________
> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 09:14:55 +0100 
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] mithyA and abhAva chatuShTaya - Vaadiraaja's  
> Nyayaratnavali Slokas 43-46 
> From: agnimile at gmail.com 
> To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org; janaswamy2001 at hotmail.com 
> CC: v.subrahmanian at gmail.com 
>  
>  
> Namaste Sri Durga Prasad. 
>  
> Dvaitins hold Veda to be apaurusheya too. 
> For advaitins, Veda are nishvAsitam, the breath of Ishvara (see  
> BrihadAraNyaka reference below). They are apaurusheya and anAdi for us  
> too. 
>  
> "Asya mahato bhUtasya nishvAsitam etad yad rigvedo yajurvedah samavedo  
> atharvAngirasah", Br. Up. 2.4.10 
>  
> However, from a paramArtha drishti, no vastu, not even any of the anAdi  
> vastu's, has any differientated existence from Brahman. The vedAs, like  
> jIva, jagat and Ishvara, are non different from Brahman, and have no  
> independent existence outside Brahman. 
>  
> Regards 
> Venkatraghavan 
>  
> On 8 Sep 2015 01:30, "Durga Janaswamy via Advaita-l"  
> <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org<mailto:advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>>  
> wrote: 
> Hari Om, 
> Pranams. 
>  
> Few doubts: 
> 1. For an advaitin, Veda is apauruSeya (अपौरुषेय). 
> Is Veda apauruSeya or the pauruSeya for  Dwaitins  and Visistadvaitins? 
> If Veda is pauruSeya, then they have problems of 
> a. mutual dependency and 
> b. aswatantra pramana of vedas. 
> How are these answered? 
>  
> 2. Does Veda has a 'dependent and borrowed existence' for an advaitin?   
> Or is Veda anAdi  for an advaitin? 
>  
> thanks and regards 
> -- durga prasad 
>  
> ________________________________ 
> > Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 10:42:09 +0530 
> > Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] mithyA and abhAva chatuShTaya - Vaadiraaja's 
> > Nyayaratnavali Slokas 43-46 
> > From: v.subrahmanian at gmail.com<mailto:v.subrahmanian at gmail.com> 
> > To: janaswamy2001 at hotmail.com<mailto:janaswamy2001 at hotmail.com>;  
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org<mailto:advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> 
> > 
> > Dear Sri Durgaprasad ji, 
> > 
> > The point being made in these posts is: Dvaita admits ONLY Viṣṇu 
> > (Brahman) to have Swatantra Sattā/satya. Everything else derive their 
> > reality/existence from Brahman and therefore are categorized as 
> > 'paratantra sattā/satya.'   Naturally, they do not admit the Veda to 
> > have Swatantra sattā nor can they say that the Veda enjoys the same 
> > level of sattā as Brahman in which  case there will be two entities 
> > having Swatantra satya: Brahman and Veda which position is not correct 
> > even according to them.  Thus, in conclusion, for them too, like 
> > advaitins, the Veda has only a second level, a dependent, borrowed 
> > existence and not the first class existence. 
> > 
> > Advaitins openly hold that the Veda belongs to the Vyāvahārika satya. 
> > 
> > regards 
> > vs 
> > 
> > On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 5:24 AM, Durga Janaswamy via Advaita-l 
> >  
> <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org<mailto:advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org><mailto:advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org<mailto:advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>>> 
> > wrote: 
> > Hari Om, 
> > 
> > Pranams. 
> > 
> > For the last few days, I am not getting emails from Advaita-l mailing list. 
> > 
> > In the archives, I saw the following in one of the emails on the subject: 
> > 
> > "Good point, but here the question is not whether VedAs are svatantram 
> > or paratantram, but whether they have svatantra sattA or paratantra 
> > sattA? 
> > If something depends on something else for its existence, it has no 
> > independent existence of its own. This is the advaita position: that 
> > VedAs themselves have no svatantra sattA- they ultimately have to 
> > depend on Brahman for their existence." 
> > 
> > Vedas being apauruSeya (अपौरुषेय), the relation between Brahman and 
> > Vedas need to be understood carefully. It is discussed  in  Brahma 
> > Sutra: 1.1.3 shAstrayonitvAt (शास्त्रयोनित्वात्) under two heads: 
> > 
> > 1. (Brahman is omniscient)  because of (Its) being the source of the 
> > scriptures. 
> > 
> > 2. (Brahman is not known from any other source), since the scriptures 
> > are the valid means of Its knowledge. 
> > 
> > "The Vedas are given out by the Supreme Being at the beginning of each 
> > cycle of creation without effort as in breathing out. But even He does 
> > not have liberty in creating the Vedas. He creates them exactly in the 
> > same way as they were in the previous kalpa. That in turn is in the 
> > same form as in the kalpa previous to it. Thus the same Vedas are given 
> > out again and again in each kalpa. Creation is beginningless and so 
> > there is no such thing as the first creation of the Vedas. Though the 
> > Supreme Being gives out the Vedas in every kalpa, he has no liberty in 
> > creating them. It is because of this lack of absolute freedom in 
> > creating that the Vedas are called ‘apaurusheya’." 
> > 
> > 
> > Please see the following link (Brahmasutra 1.1.3 -- शास्त्रयोनित्वात् 
> > Translation of the lectures of Dr. Mani Dravid Sastri) 
> > 
> > https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bw-rceu2TxMUakQ3Q09jeU5ORjg 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > thank you and regards 
> > -- durga prasad 
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/ 
> > http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe or change your options: 
> > http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l 
> > 
> > For assistance, contact: 
> >  
> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org<mailto:listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org><mailto:listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org<mailto:listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org>> 
> > 
>  
> _______________________________________________ 
> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/ 
> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita 
>  
> To unsubscribe or change your options: 
> http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l 
>  
> For assistance, contact: 
> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org<mailto:listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org>