[Advaita-l] If Jagat is Satya like Brahman

[Shashwata Shastri]

Namaste,

I read the discussion related to Sri Bhaskar ji's post.

If you know Brahman as saytam then the jagat which was perceived as a
different existence from Brahman is now mithya since it is now
non-different from Brahman. When the inert objects such as deha prana which
are included in Jagat become falsified, then the entity called jeeva which
was thought to be different from Brahman because of object based
identification, becomes the Brahman itself. Because Brahman itself was not
identified as jeeva at the first place due to the object based universe.
What we are doing here is cancelling the existence of objects after
realizing the absolute being. When the object oriented universe is negated
then the conscious being or self exists only. Before realizing, that self's
previous status was jeeva . Now after realization the jagat got dissolved
in the self and the self emerged as the absolute. Lord Shankara never said
that the status of jeeva is absolute. He said- when the process of
differentiation disappears (which was the variable named universe) the
jeeva is recognized as Brahman. Because Brahman is considered as jeeva when
it is related to some certain aspects of this universe. When this universe
is dissolved in self how can you point out the Brahman as jeeva? There is
no way to do that.

If Sri Bhaskar ji says - Jagat is satyam then the status of jeeva becomes
satyam too. Hence the jeeva will never be able to know the absolute being
and Tat tvam asi, ayatma brahman these Mahavakyas will fail instantly. How
can one take the pure gold without melting the ring? Because the ring
effect is true therefore, can not be reversed. Eternal cause does not need
to create an eternal effect. If the effect is eternal then there is no way
to get rid of it. Therefore the chance to get rid off avidya is impossible.
Hence no liberation for jeeva as bondage is eternal.

Jivanmukta or Jnani does not need to break the clay pot to know that it is
made out of clay. This is a fallacy. As effect is eternal then the pot is
eternal to. The pot has it's own effect which will be eternal. Then
thoughts which will be created as effects in the mind of Jnani from the
cause named pot, will be eternal too. Thoughts will eventually create an
effect named attachment and attachment will be creating differences between
the clay and pot. (i.e) Attachment is responsible for creating different
forms of relationships with one woman kind. Mother sister wife etc. We know
that they all are women but still we are getting attached to the different
forms and names. Because with thoughts attachments come with attachments
relationships with relationships bondage comes. Again the never ending
cycle returns.
Best Regards,

P.S: Do correct me if I am wrong.

Shashwata Chowdhury

On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 7:24 AM, Venkatesh Murthy (वेङ्कटेशः
सीतारामार्यपुत्रः) <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

>  Namaste
>  On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 1:39 PM, Shashwata Shastri
> <shashwata.unimas at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Namaste,
> >
> > Now my question is-
> >
> > //////Everything is Brahman and Jagat is also Brahman. Therefore Jagat is
> > Satya only not Mithya. Everything in the world is Satya and Brahman
> > only. This argument will have objection by Dvaitis like this. If
> > everything is Brahman and Satya the dog's excreta lying in the street
> > is also Satya and Brahman. What is the difference between you and that
> > dog's excreta? You both are the same. /////
> >
> > Why are they enforcing their identification method on Non-Dualism?
> According
> > to us there is nothing to compare between the objects anymore since there
> > are no - I and dog excreta. Both of them are Brahman. Where does a dvaiti
> > find the forms when there is nothing but Brahman. He did agree to the
> part-
> > "Everything is Brahman". Now why such a comparison after agreeing?
>
>
> They are using debate tactics. In a debate you can accept Opponent's
> view and prove it is leading to wrong conclusions. Dvaitis will first
> accept Advaitis view Everything is Brahman. Then they are trying to
> prove it is leading to wrong conclusion like dog's excreta and you are
> the same. But the problem is the Logic they are using is not correct.
> Therefore there is no wrong conclusion in Advaita.
>
> But there is another debate these days started by Sri Bhaskar. He is
> also saying Jagat is Satya but not Mithya. I like to point the problem
> with his view also. He also must accept Jagat is Mithya. Otherwise he
> will get the wrong conclusion of dog's excreta and person will be the
> same.
>
> >
> > Shashwata Chowdhury
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 5:09 AM, Venkatesh Murthy (वेङ्कटेशः
> > सीतारामार्यपुत्रः) <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Namaste
> >> On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 2:14 AM, Shashwata Shastri <
> >> shashwata.unimas at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Namaste,
> >> >
> >> > One thing do puzzles me Venktesh Ji. If they agree to the concept of
> >> > Brahman and dog excreta being one how come they identify the dog
> excreta
> >> > being different from Brahman itself? Doesn't that point towards
> dualism
> >> > ultimately?
> >> >
> >>
> >> Yes they believe in Dualism Utlimately to the extreme extent and say
> Jeeva
> >> is not Brahman even in Moksha. It is always separate from Brahman. That
> >> is why they are Dvaitis.  Dvaita is Dualism.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Best Regards,
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > <
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=oa-2200-b
> >
> >> > Virus-free.
> >> > www.avast.com
> >> >
> >> > <
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=oa-2200-b
> >
> >> > <#m_-6127036451405920596_DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Shashwata Chowdhury
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 8:39 AM, Venkatesh Murthy (वेङ्कटेशः
> >> > सीतारामार्यपुत्रः) <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>  Pranams Sri Sadananda
> >> >>
> >> >> I like your response. If the Dvaiti asks a scientist if everything is
> >> >> electrons, neutrons and protons why he will not eat garbage but eat
> >> >> food what will scientist say? He will say yes everything is
> electrons,
> >> >> neutrons and protons but from practical Vyavahara view garbage and
> >> >> food are not the same.
> >> >>
> >> >>  Another thing is when someone says dog's excreta is Brahman he is
> >> >> putting a restriction on Brahman. Brahman is not only dog's excreta
> >> >> but it is the road where the dog's excreta is lying. Brahman is the
> >> >> city where the road is existing. Brahman is the country where the
> city
> >> >> is existing. Brahman is the Earth where the country is existing.
> >> >> Brahman is the Solar System where Earth is existing. Brahman is
> Galaxy
> >> >> where Solar System is existing and Brahman is the entire Universe
> >> >> where all Galaxies are existing. If Brahman is everything it is wrong
> >> >> to say only one or two things are Brahman and say they are not
> >> >> different. It is bad logic Kutarka.
> >> >>
> >> >> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 4:39 PM, kuntimaddi sadananda
> >> >> <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >> > PraNAms
> >> >> >
> >> >> > If I say - everything is nothing but electrons-protons-neutrons -
> >> >> > these
> >> >> are being fundamental particles - then, garbage is also made up of
> the
> >> >> same
> >> >> fundamental particles and so is the delicious food on the table. Just
> >> >> because they are fundamentally the same, does not mean that one
> should
> >> >> not
> >> >> discriminate the stinking garbage from the delicious food. The
> >> >> differences
> >> >> are at the package level with names, attributes, utilities etc,
> being
> >> >> different. Dvaitins have problem in understanding these fundamental
> >> >> truth.
> >> >> Everything including dog,s excrete is Brahman only - but as
> >> >> adhishtaanam -
> >> >> that includes even the dvaitins. Brahman being infinite cannot
> exclude
> >> >> anything.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Mithya involves - that which undergoes changes - as Goudapaada -
> >> >> illustrates in the vaitatya prakaranam. Brahman cannot undergo
> change -
> >> >> because it is infinite. Yet Brahman cannot but be the adhishtaanam
> for
> >> >> everything - that includes dog's excreta and dvatins.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Krishna first discusses in 10th chapter - vibhuuti - all glorified
> >> >> things - saying in the end that unlimited are His glories.  In the
> next
> >> >> chapter, 11, He shows that not only good things but even bad things
> are
> >> >> also part of his vishwaruupa - we have one side gods and the other
> side
> >> >> all
> >> >> demons too, since being Brahman, he cannot exclude anything. Arjuna
> was
> >> >> afraid of the scene. The fact  is nothing REALLY in Brahman. Hence
> the
> >> >> statements - mastaani sarva bhuutani and immediately Krishna says -
> na
> >> >> cha
> >> >> mastaani bhuutani.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Everything including the dog's excreta is Brahman only yet from
> >> >> > Brahman
> >> >> point nothing or no-thing is Brahman. There are no dvaitins in
> Brahman!
> >> >> It
> >> >> is a-dvaita!
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Hari Om!
> >> >> > Sadananda
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --------------------------------------------
> >> >> > On Tue, 4/5/16, Venkatesh Murthy (वेङ्कटेशः सीतारामार्यपुत्रः) via
> >> >> Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >  Subject: [Advaita-l] If Jagat is Satya like Brahman
> >> >> >  To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <
> >> >> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> >> >> >  Date: Tuesday, April 5, 2016, 11:58 PM
> >> >> >
> >> >> >  Namaste
> >> >> >
> >> >> >  Everything is Brahman and Jagat is also Brahman. Therefore
> >> >> >  Jagat is
> >> >> >  Satya only not Mithya. Everything in the world is Satya and
> >> >> >  Brahman
> >> >> >  only. This argument will have objection by Dvaitis like
> >> >> >  this. If
> >> >> >  everything is Brahman and Satya the dog's excreta lying in
> >> >> >  the street
> >> >> >  is also Satya and Brahman. What is the difference between
> >> >> >  you and that
> >> >> >  dog's excreta? You both are the same.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >  Therefore to avoid becoming same as dog's excreta we have to
> >> >> >  say Jagat
> >> >> >  and everything in Jagat is Mithya. Dog's excreta is also
> >> >> >  Mithya only.
> >> >> >  It is not Satya. But Sruti has said Tat Tvam Asi and Aham
> >> >> >  Brahmasmi.
> >> >> >  Therefore I am not Mithya. I am Brahman. I am Satya.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >  --
> >> >> >  Regards
> >> >> >
> >> >> >  -Venkatesh
> >> >> >  _______________________________________________
> >> >> >  Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> >> >> >  http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
> >> >> >
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> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Regards
> >> >>
> >> >> -Venkatesh
> >> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Regards
> >>
> >> -Venkatesh
> >> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> --
> Regards
>
> -Venkatesh
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