Ravi Kiran ravikiranm108 at gmail.com
Fri Apr 29 01:50:19 CDT 2016

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 9:12 PM, Sati Shankar via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> praNAm
> I feel lucky having joined this group, at least I reached a place where
> some meaningful discussion is going on.
> Many of the variations which we encounter are due to semantics*, mithyA* is
> never an illusion nor "False" as we encounter in textbook and general
> texts. When I started studying, found AchArya Shankar himself has said he
> had been saying what has been already there and this led me go backward
> right to Rig Veda.and  hence started reconsidering most of the core as a
> facet of continuity. same applies to unity and duality also.
> I can not be comprehensive here is a short note:
> Let us consider our own tradition;
> In our Sanatan tradition,  whatever we perceive, the form and name it,*
> nAma -  rUpa*, is realised in our tradition as *vishvam ekam*, (RV.
> 3.54.8), the many are the One  and the One that is manifold, *vishvam
> satyam*, (RV. 2.24.12); the manifold truth,and *vishvam .....garbham* (RV.
> 10.121.7). therefore, if asked, "Is He One or many?", our tradition
> says,"One and many", The general principle is ,the *devah* is every where
> of one and the same form. (RV.8.11.8)., that is, "Even as he seems, so is
> he named" (RV. 5.44.6)., the way being *anurUpah*, *pratirUpah,*
> (JBU.I.27). So how can there be a part *satyam *and  an other* mithyA?*
> Here,
> He, *PrajApati,* manifests in "Himself", so this universe, *idam sarvam*,
> pecieved according to *anurUpam, pratirUpam*,to be declared " One and
> many". It is the semantic mis-marriage that the translation of the
> *NasadIya
> Sukta*, the Manifestation Hymn, as called the "Creation Hymn", which
> signifies the error interpretation and naming by the Indologists had in
> their minds the "Creationist presuppositions" of Christianity. Therefore,
> using the "God" for the  "Self. Manifested",* idam sarvam*, is like
> limiting Him and equally makes "theology" a term unfit to proceed for
> *brahma
> jijnAsA* of our tradition.*PrajApti*, thus manifested in Himself,* idam
> sarvam*,selforganizes in dharma by his own  multifarious *sva-bhAva,* such
> that in Him are all beings, *idam sarvam,- manas, prAnah, nAma-rUpa, *are
> within, as coincident; " sent by Him onto him, and born of Him into him, it
> is in Him that all this universe is stabilised, that is how our tradition
> invokes for *shAnti, ... sarve devAh shAntih, nakshatrh shAntih,
> vanaspatayah shantih.....aum shAntih, shAntih, shAntih..*. to keep the
> equilibrium  in *idam sarvam* intact, for welfare of the cosmos. Our
> scriptures teach,"*idam sarvam brahm*" and therefore, being a manifestation
> within,   *Aham brahmAsmi*  since we ,*aikik *and *samyaka *are this "*idam
> sarvam*", well connected in such a way that a chance deviation at any
> level, be it microcosm or macrocosm, does not leave unaffected within. When
> "idam sarvam brahmn" how can there be something called mithyA?

Thanks. In the same light,

in that samyak jnAna or brahmAtmaikatva jnAna, is there a "jagat vishEsha
jnAna" also embedded?

If so, comes the next question for discussion, whether such a jagat, is
sathya or mithya ?

Or in other words,

When we discuss jagat as sathya or jagat as mithya, is it not that

the jnAna takes the rUpa as "jagat sathya" ( vishEsha jnAna A) in upAdhi 1

the jnAna takes the rUpa as "jagat mithya" ( vishEsha jnAna B) in upAdhi 2

What is the svarUpa (source or nature) of such vishEsha jnAna ?

Does that svarUpa jnAna (paramArtha sathya) have any place for (or has
anything to do with)
vishEsha's like jagat sathya or jagat mithya ?


> So is the observation by this ignorant.
> Regards
>  Sati Shankar.
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Bhaskar YR via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> > praNAms
> > Hare Krishna
> >
> > First of all my heartfelt praNAms to all prabhuji-s who have patiently
> > participated in this discussion and shared their thoughts.  After
> > exchanging more than 200 mails on this topic, as I promised I am writing
> > down my final thoughts on it.  I must say here by no means it is 'the'
> > conclusion in Advaita saMpradAya but shared thoughts do have the base in
> > shankara bhAshya and shruti.   And more importantly Sri SSS's works too
> > somewhere advocated this same view point.  From all these discussion, we
> > can flatly conclude that there is no difference of opinion on
> > brahmaikatvaM, satyatvaM, nirvisheshatvaM etc.,  there is no difference
> of
> > opinion on availability of this jagat in vyavahAra to each and every one,
> > hence jagat astitvaM has been accepted as vyavahArika satta  and again
> > there is no difference of opinion about jeeva svarUpa is ultimately
> brahman
> > only (jeevO brahmaiva na apara) in these discussions.  Problem starts for
> > us  when one party say for the jagat brahman is the only abhinna
> > nimittOpadAna kAraNa hence not mithyA but from its causal form satya
> only.
> > The other party says brahman is the adhishtAnam of this jagat but for the
> > jagat brahman is mere vivartOpadAna kAraNa and mAya is the pariNAmi
> > kAraNa.  Since there is no svagata bheda we cannot say jagat  is brahman
> > and jagat is mithyA only because it is ever changing whereas brahman is
> > nirvikAri and nirvishesha.  I think with regard to all these issues we
> have
> > already talked a lot and finally after some mutual agreements and
> > disagrements we stuck at one point. i.e. What would be the jnAni's
> drushti
> > of this jagat after realizing his adviteeya svarUpa.  Whether he look at
> > the jagat as mithyA or satya??  Since his drushti / realization is what
> > shruti and AcharyOpadesha based.  We have to see what shrtuti and
> > bhagavatpAda offer with regard to this.  It is true that for the ajnAni-s
> > like me/us it is not possible to determine what exactly is the jnAni's
> > hrudaya spandana, atleast from the shruti and bhAshya reference we can
> try
> > to understand what would be the perception of jnAni with regard to this
> > jagat.  Whether this jagat is satya or mithya.
> >
> > First of all, before quoting the shruti and bhAshyakAra, I would like to
> > quote couple of references from my parama guruji Sri SSS from one of his
> > articles published in 2014 from adhyAtma prakAsha kAryAlaya in monthly
> > magazine adhyAtma prakAsha and another one from his minor work 'brahma
> > vidyA'.  I am just reproducing the first one i.e. article in adhyAtma
> > prakAsha  as it is written in Kannada  :
> >
> > // quote //
> >
> > haagaadare tattvajnAnavAdamelAdarU prapanchavu mithyeyendu tOruvudO
> illavO
> > ??  Aga mAtra idu mithyeyaagi tOralu kAraNavenu??  endu yaaraadaru
> shankisa
> > bahudu.  idakke uttaravenendare, nijavaagi yaavaagalu prapanchavu
> > mithyavendu kaaNisuvude illa.  ekendare Atmanannu bittare
> prapanchavembudu
> > bereyaagi iruvudilla.  ajnAnigaLige avara paramAtma svarUpavu tiLiyadu.
> > Addarinda avaru bhinabhinnaraagiruva jeevarugaLannu alli avarugaLu
> > vyavaharisuttiruva prapanchavannu kaaNuttiruttaare.  Adare avaru
> > AtmasAkshAtkAravannu padedare " idellavu Atmane" emba shrutiya arthavannu
> > managANuttaare.  Aga avarige prapanchavu Atmane Agi biduvudarinda adu
> > paramasatyavaagi biduttade.
> >
> > Addarinda "jagattu mithyeye?? "?  emba prashnege katta kadeya uttaravu
> > yaavadaayitu??  adu taaniruva paramArtha rUpadalli Atmane, brahmave.
> > Addarinda adu nijavaagiye satyavaagide hIge nOdidare yaavadondU mithyave
> > alla.  ajnAnigaLige tOruttiruva brahma bhinnavaada jagattembudu illave
> > illa; Addarinda adannu satyavendaagali, mithyavendaagali vingadisuvudakke
> > kaaraNavilla.  jagattendaadaru kareyiri, brahmavendaadaru kareyiri;
> iruvudu
> > Onde Ondu adviteeyavAda paramArtha satyavu.  adakkinta bereyaagi
> yaavadondU
> > iruvade illa.
> >
> > // unquote //
> >
> > Those who can read and understand Kannada, above two paragraphs are
> > self-explanatory.  And those who donot know Kannada the gist of above
> > observation of Sri SSS is about  jnAni's perception of jagat after the
> > svarUpa jnana.  Sri SSS poses a question here : After realization whether
> > this jagat become mithyA for the jnAni??  And why this jagat would become
> > mithyA for the jnAni only after realization??  For this Sri SSS
> clarifies :
> > prapancha (jagat) does not deviate from brahman and does not exist apart
> > from brahman.  Only ajnAni-s due to their parichinna jnana would see the
> > various jeeva-s and manifold objects and transactions.  When they realize
> > they would come to know that 'all this is Atman only'.  Therefore, Sri
> > in second pyara concludes :  For the question : is this jagat mithyA??
> The
> > ultimate answer is :  that (jagat) in its sadrUpa (paramArtha rUpa) Atman
> > only brahman only.  Therefore this (jagat) is REAL, FOR THAT MATTER THERE
> > IS NOTHING THAT CAN BE CALLED  'MITHYA'.  For the ajnAni-s this jagat
> would
> > appear bhinna from brahman (separate from brahman), that which does not
> > exist at all.  Therefore no need for exercise like tattvAnyatvAbhyAm for
> > this avidyA kalpita jagat.  Whether you call this jagat or brahman what
> is
> > there is ONLY one and that is paramArtha satya there exists nothing apart
> > from it.
> >
> > And Sri SSS further clarifies in brahma vidye (again a Kannada book) at
> > the end quotes one shruti vAkya : brahma dAshA brahma dAsA brahmaiveme
> > kitavAH and advises that realization of this universal truth (sarvatrika
> > satya) is the parama purushArtha jnana, janma sAphalya jnana.  Those who
> > attain this jnana is dvija Sri SSS quotes manu here.
> >
> > And in his various prakaraNa works like jeevanta vedAnta, anubhava
> > paryanta vedAnta, mAndUkya rahasya vivruttiH, shAnkara vedAnta,
> > Misconceptions about shankara vedAnta etc.  Sri SSS deals with this
> subject
> > and clarifies that sarvAtmakatvaM is what is advocated in shankara's
> > Advaita vedAnta and jagan mithyatvaM is not an essential criterial to
> > arrive this truth.
> >
> > In the next part we shall look into the shruti and shankara bhAshya (
> > which I have already covered in my previous mails) to this effect.
> >
> > Hari Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
> > bhaskar
> >
> >
> >
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