[Advaita-l] JAGAT MITHYATVAM IN ADVAITA - A CONCLUSION - part -1

[Venkatesh Murthy (वेङ्कटेशः सीतारामार्यपुत्रः)]

Namaste Sri Subrahmanian

Here I have one doubt. If you are saying Jnani will see the world like
mirage water we know even ordinary man will not try to drink mirage
water after he has known it is a mirage water only. But why will Jnani
try to involve in worldly affairs like wife and children and getting
children through wife and so on? He should be totally not interested
in all these things. If you say it is Prarabdha Karma but why will
Prarabdha Karma force him to knowingly drink mirage water? How is this
logic correct?

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 11:30 PM, V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l
<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Bhaskar YR via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>> praNAms
>> Hare Krishna
>>
>> First of all, before quoting the shruti and bhAshyakAra, I would like to
>> quote couple of references from my parama guruji Sri SSS from one of his
>> articles published in 2014 from adhyAtma prakAsha kAryAlaya in monthly
>> magazine adhyAtma prakAsha and another one from his minor work 'brahma
>> vidyA'.  I am just reproducing the first one i.e. article in adhyAtma
>> prakAsha  as it is written in Kannada  :
>>
>> // quote //
>>
>> haagaadare tattvajnAnavAdamelAdarU prapanchavu mithyeyendu tOruvudO illavO
>> ??  Aga mAtra idu mithyeyaagi tOralu kAraNavenu??  endu yaaraadaru shankisa
>> bahudu.  idakke uttaravenendare, nijavaagi yaavaagalu prapanchavu
>> mithyavendu kaaNisuvude illa.  ekendare Atmanannu bittare prapanchavembudu
>> bereyaagi iruvudilla.  ajnAnigaLige avara paramAtma svarUpavu tiLiyadu.
>> Addarinda avaru bhinabhinnaraagiruva jeevarugaLannu alli avarugaLu
>> vyavaharisuttiruva prapanchavannu kaaNuttiruttaare.  Adare avaru
>> AtmasAkshAtkAravannu padedare " idellavu Atmane" emba shrutiya arthavannu
>> managANuttaare.  Aga avarige prapanchavu Atmane Agi biduvudarinda adu
>> paramasatyavaagi biduttade.
>>
>> Addarinda "jagattu mithyeye?? "?  emba prashnege katta kadeya uttaravu
>> yaavadaayitu??  adu taaniruva paramArtha rUpadalli Atmane, brahmave.
>> Addarinda adu nijavaagiye satyavaagide hIge nOdidare yaavadondU mithyave
>> alla.  ajnAnigaLige tOruttiruva brahma bhinnavaada jagattembudu illave
>> illa; Addarinda adannu satyavendaagali, mithyavendaagali vingadisuvudakke
>> kaaraNavilla.
>
>
>
> The above conclusion is contradicted by Shankara, in BGB 2.16 end:
>
> त्वमपि तत्त्वदर्शिनां दृष्टिमाश्रित्य शोकं मोहं च हित्वा शीतोष्णादीनि
> नियतानियतरूपाणि द्वन्द्वानि *विकारोऽयमसन्नेव मरीचिजलवन्मिथ्यावभासते *इति
> मनसि निश्चित्य तितिक्षस्व इत्यभिप्रायः।।
>
> Translation by Swami Gambhirananda:
>
> Therefore, you too, by adopting *the vision of the men of realization *and
> giving up sorrow and delusion, forbear the dualities, heat, cold, etc. some
> of which are definite in their nature, and others inconstant , mentally
> being convinced that this (phenomenal world) is changeful, *verily unreal
> and appears falsely like water in a mirage.//*
>
> The Kannada translation of the above line of the bhashyam by Sri SSS:
>
> //nīnū antaḥ tattvadarśigaḷa dṛṣṭīyannu āśrayisikoṇḍu śokavannū mohavannū
> biṭṭu śītosṇagaḷu muntāda niyatarūpavāgiyū aniyatarūpavāgiyū iruva
> dvandagaḷannu 'idu kāryavāddarinda bisilukudureya nīrinante asatte āgiddu
> husiyāgi toruttide' endu manassinalli niścayisikoṇḍu taḍeduko endu
> abhiprāya.//
>
> Sri SSS has very correctly translated the bhashya: the way in which the
> Jnani sees the world, its transformations: as the mirage water even though
> non-existent, asat, yet appears unreal. The Kannada word for that is
> 'husiyāgi toruvudu'.  So, according to the translation, the Jnani will see
> the world, its transformations, as a mere appearance, knowing that it does
> not exist really.
>
> Someone can kindly reproduce here Sri SSS's translation for  the following
> bhashya sentences too, especially the 4.1.19 BSB.
>
>
> In the BSB 4.1.15 Shankara clearly says:
>
> बाधितमपि तु मिथ्याज्ञानं द्विचन्द्रज्ञानवत्संस्कारवशात्कंचित्कालमनुवर्तत एव
> ।
> [Even after having been annulled, sublated, the mithyājnānam,
> false-knowledge, like the two-moon perception, will certainly continue for
> some time.]
> BSB 4.1.19
>
> ननु सत्यपि सम्यग्दर्शने यथा प्राग्देहपाताद्भेददर्शनं
> द्विचन्द्रदर्शनन्यायेनानुवृत्तम्, एवं पश्चादप्यनुवर्तेत — न, निमित्ताभवात् ।
> Objection:  Even when the right realization is there, just as perception of
> difference, bheda darshanam, persists till the fall of the body (of the
> Jnani), let it (perception of bheda) continue even after death?
> [For this objection Shankara answers, उपभोगशेषक्षपणं हि
> तत्रानुवृत्तिनिमित्तम्, न च तादृशमत्र किञ्चिदस्ति । [The exhaustion of
> experience of prarabdha  alone is the limit for such continuance (of bheda
> darshanam). Such prarabdha is no longer there after the body falls.
> Thus, Shankara explicitly says that the Jnani perceives the mithyā world,
> with the knowledge that it is mithya.  That is why he is giving the analogy
> of (1) the mirage water - where the water appearance is continuing to be
> perceived but the knowledge that it is mithya is also there and (2) the
> two-moon perception where owing to an ocular disease, a person perceives
> two moons while he knows that it is only one.  These two analogies, for
> Shankara, are to explain the state of the Jnani's perception of the world
> of multiplicity, while he knows that it is mithyā.
>
> This topic was discussed long ago, in 2009, and an article available here
> was the outcome of that:
> https://adbhutam.wordpress.com/2009/07/30/the-enlightened-eminently-engage-in-empirical-endeavours/
>
> regards
> vs
>
>
>> jagattendaadaru kareyiri, brahmavendaadaru kareyiri; iruvudu Onde Ondu
>> adviteeyavAda paramArtha satyavu.  adakkinta bereyaagi yaavadondU iruvade
>> illa.
>>
>> // unquote //
>>
>> Those who can read and understand Kannada, above two paragraphs are
>> self-explanatory.  And those who donot know Kannada the gist of above
>> observation of Sri SSS is about  jnAni's perception of jagat after the
>> svarUpa jnana.  Sri SSS poses a question here : After realization whether
>> this jagat become mithyA for the jnAni??  And why this jagat would become
>> mithyA for the jnAni only after realization??  For this Sri SSS clarifies :
>> THERE IS NOTHING LIKE MITHYA PRAPANCHA AT ANY POINT OF TIME  because
>> prapancha (jagat) does not deviate from brahman and does not exist apart
>> from brahman.  Only ajnAni-s due to their parichinna jnana would see the
>> various jeeva-s and manifold objects and transactions.  When they realize
>> they would come to know that 'all this is Atman only'.  Therefore, Sri SSS
>> in second pyara concludes :  For the question : is this jagat mithyA??  The
>> ultimate answer is :  that (jagat) in its sadrUpa (paramArtha rUpa) Atman
>> only brahman only.  Therefore this (jagat) is REAL, FOR THAT MATTER THERE
>> IS NOTHING THAT CAN BE CALLED  'MITHYA'.  For the ajnAni-s this jagat would
>> appear bhinna from brahman (separate from brahman), that which does not
>> exist at all.  Therefore no need for exercise like tattvAnyatvAbhyAm for
>> this avidyA kalpita jagat.  Whether you call this jagat or brahman what is
>> there is ONLY one and that is paramArtha satya there exists nothing apart
>> from it.
>>
>> And Sri SSS further clarifies in brahma vidye (again a Kannada book) at
>> the end quotes one shruti vAkya : brahma dAshA brahma dAsA brahmaiveme
>> kitavAH and advises that realization of this universal truth (sarvatrika
>> satya) is the parama purushArtha jnana, janma sAphalya jnana.  Those who
>> attain this jnana is dvija Sri SSS quotes manu here.
>>
>> And in his various prakaraNa works like jeevanta vedAnta, anubhava
>> paryanta vedAnta, mAndUkya rahasya vivruttiH, shAnkara vedAnta,
>> Misconceptions about shankara vedAnta etc.  Sri SSS deals with this subject
>> and clarifies that sarvAtmakatvaM is what is advocated in shankara's
>> Advaita vedAnta and jagan mithyatvaM is not an essential criterial to
>> arrive this truth.
>>
>> In the next part we shall look into the shruti and shankara bhAshya (
>> which I have already covered in my previous mails) to this effect.
>>
>> Hari Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
>> bhaskar
>>
>>
>>
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-- 
Regards

-Venkatesh