[Advaita-l] Deprecating foreign scholars is not Hindu tradition

[Venkatesh Murthy]

Namaste

On Wednesday 3 August 2016, Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com> wrote:

> Brahman being the svarUpa of everything in creation, it cannot be the
> prerogative of just a human, male, Brahmin.
>

Jnana, Karma and Bhakti have different  requirements. For Vaidika Karma
Dvija males only have right. But all castes, women, Chandalas and even
Mlecchas have right for Bhakti. But there also only Dvijas can use Vaidika
Mantras in worship but not others. They have to use non Vaidika Mantras
like Pauranika Stotras. Or they have to worship without Mantras.

For Jnana and Moksha everyone has right. But the method is different. Only
Dvijas can get Moksha by hearing Upanishad Vakya from Guru. Others can
listen to or study Bhagavad Gita, Bhagavata, Linga Purana, Siva Purana,
Yoga Vasistha, Adhyatma Ramayana and other texts to get Moksha. They cannot
get Moksha by Upanishad study.

If non Dvijas get Moksha it is understood they have got Upanishad Vakya
instruction in some previous birth when they were Dvija males with proper
Samskaras.

Samskaras are important to claim right for Vedic study. Only Dvija males have
this right.

> There are certain infrastructural advantages to that category that aid in
> the acquisition of knowledge, but by no means is that an exclusive set of
> criteria in my opinion.
>
> What is definitely needed is jnAna sAdhana (shravaNa, manana,
> nidhidhyAsana of scripture under a competent guru) and the mental
> qualifications required to absorb, analyse and assimilate the information
> (sAdhana chatushTaya sampatti).
>
> Regards,
> Venkatraghavan
>
> On 3 Aug 2016 5:30 a.m., "D.V.N.Sarma డి.వి.ఎన్.శర్మ" <dvnsarma at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','dvnsarma at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>> According to some people these are the minimum requirements for moksha.
>>
>> 1. human
>> 2. male
>> 3. brahmin
>> 4. doing prescribed rituals enjoined by veda after upanayana(for chitta
>> suddhi)
>> 5. getting disillusioned with rituals realising the impermanency of
>> their results
>> 6. acquiring pre-qualifications necessary for enquiry into Brahman
>> 7. Approaching a competent Guru and doing  vichara under his guidance.
>>
>> The above indicates that nobody except a Hindu brahmin can aspire for
>> mokha.
>> Moksha is copyrighted stuff which can be accessed only by Hindu brahmins.
>>
>> regards,
>> Sarma.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 9:40 AM, Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l
>> <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org');>>
>> wrote:
>> > Yes, indeed. But I don't know if he seeks moksha, I am assuming people
>> on
>> > this list do.
>> >
>> > Just a pointer that pride is an obstacle to moksha, and we are better
>> off
>> > avoiding it. You can ignore if you think I am wrong.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Venkatraghavan
>> >
>> > On 2 Aug 2016 11:53 p.m., "Venkatesh Murthy via Advaita-l" <
>> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org');>>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Namaste
>> >>
>> >> On Tuesday 2 August 2016, Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','agnimile at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > No, vedic karma requires adhikaritvam, but please do not assume
>> >> > adhikaritvam with superiority, and do not extend that superiority as
>> >> > conferring "true" knowledge as opposed to "bookish" knowledge.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Your advice should be to Western scholars also. They should not assume
>> >> superiority just because they are from rich countries and fair
>> complexion.
>> >>
>> >> Westerner Roth has said Sayana was ritualistic and he could not give
>> proper
>> >> meaning for Vedic mantras. How can Roth with no Upanayana Samskara know
>> >> more about Vedas than Sayana? Is it possible in this Mleccha Janma for
>> Roth
>> >> to know more than Brahmin Sayana about Vedas? Never.
>> >>
>> >> > Karma and jnAna operate on different levels.
>> >> >
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> > Venkatraghavan
>> >> >
>> >> > On 2 Aug 2016 3:17 a.m., "Venkatesh Murthy" <vmurthy36 at gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','vmurthy36 at gmail.com');>
>> >> > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','vmurthy36 at gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','vmurthy36 at gmail.com');>');>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Namaste
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Do you mean no Upanayana is required for Vedic and Vedanga studies?
>> A
>> >> >> lot of people here will not agree with you.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Monday 1 August 2016, Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','agnimile at gmail.com');>
>> >> >> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','agnimile at gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','agnimile at gmail.com');>');>> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> What samskAra does Atma have?  Why identify with paricChinna anAtma
>> >> >>> vastu like samskAra or desha / kAla when one should remind oneself
>> to
>> >> >>> identify with consciousness instead?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> One can have pride in one's culture, but when that pride looks
>> down on
>> >> >>> someone else is only an obstacle to Atma vidyA. chAndAl'ostu sa tu
>> >> >>> dvijo'stu gururityeShA manIShA mama.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Regards,
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On Sun, Jul 31, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Venkatesh Murthy via Advaita-l <
>> >> >>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org');>>
>> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> Namaste
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> On Saturday 30 July 2016, D.V.N.Sarma డి.వి.ఎన్.శర్మ <
>> >> >>>> dvnsarma at gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','dvnsarma at gmail.com');>>
>> >> >>>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> > Since Hindu Astronomy at that time was not upto the mark our
>> >> >>>> astronomers
>> >> >>>> > borrowed from Yavanas. Nothing becomes automatically right just
>> >> >>>> because it
>> >> >>>> > is
>> >> >>>> > propounded by a Hindu.
>> >> >>>> >
>> >> >>>> > Usually a latter commentator contradicts a former commentator's
>> >> point
>> >> >>>> of
>> >> >>>> > view.
>> >> >>>> > It is unreasonable to say that the latter commentator has no
>> right
>> >> to
>> >> >>>> > contradict the former.
>> >> >>>> >
>> >> >>>> >
>> >> >>>> But you are missing the point. A Mleccha will not have any
>> Samskara
>> >> like
>> >> >>>> Upanayana. He will not learn Sastra traditionally from Guru but
>> may be
>> >> >>>> from
>> >> >>>> University Professor wearing pants and shoes. How can such a pant
>> >> shirt
>> >> >>>> shoe wearing Guru without Samskaras give proper instruction? He
>> will
>> >> >>>> give
>> >> >>>> bookish knowledge only.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> A man  wanted to learn making Masala Dosa from a book. In the
>> book it
>> >> >>>> was
>> >> >>>> written 'heat the Dosa pan and apply ghee on the hot pan'. He
>> applied
>> >> >>>> ghee
>> >> >>>> with hands on the hot pan and got burnt badly. This will happen
>> if you
>> >> >>>> are learning from books.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> >
>> >> >>>> > regards,
>> >> >>>> > Sarma.
>> >> >>>> >
>> >> >>>> > On Sun, Jul 31, 2016 at 12:24 AM, Venkatesh Murthy via
>> Advaita-l <
>> >> >>>> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org');>
>> >> >>>> > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org');>
>> >> >>>> ');>>
>> >> >>>> > wrote:
>> >> >>>> >
>> >> >>>> >> Namaste
>> >> >>>> >>
>> >> >>>> >> On Saturday 30 July 2016, D.V.N.Sarma డి.వి.ఎన్.శర్మ <
>> >> >>>> >> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org');>
>> >> >>>> >> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org');>
>> >> >>>> ');>>
>> >> >>>> >> wrote:
>> >> >>>> >>
>> >> >>>> >> > Hindu tradition is to give due respect to deserving people
>> >> >>>> irrespective
>> >> >>>> >> of
>> >> >>>> >> > their religion or nationality.
>> >> >>>> >> > This attested and made evident by by Varahamihira in Brihat
>> >> Samhita
>> >> >>>> >> 2-14.
>> >> >>>> >> >
>> >> >>>> >> > म्लेच्छाहि यवनास्तेषु सम्यक् शास्त्रं प्रतिष्ठितम् ।
>> >> >>>> >> > ऋषिवत्तेऽपि पूज्यन्ते किं पुनर्दैवविद्विजः।।
>> >> >>>> >> >
>> >> >>>> >> > Because of their entrenchment in the Khagola Sastra Yavanas
>> >> though
>> >> >>>> >> Mlecchas
>> >> >>>> >> > are adored as Rishis. What to say if one is a brahmin
>> >> >>>> >> > astronomer/astrologer.
>> >> >>>> >>
>> >> >>>> >>
>> >> >>>> >> Yes they can be respected but this Sloka is not about situation
>> >> when
>> >> >>>> the
>> >> >>>> >> Mlecchas are writing Sastras contradicting Brahmin Sastras. If
>> a
>> >> >>>> Mleccha
>> >> >>>> >> is
>> >> >>>> >> contradicting Adi Sankara and making wrong comments on
>> Acharyas of
>> >> >>>> >> Parampara in any Sastra he will be not respected by us.
>> >> >>>> >>
>> >> >>>> >> >
>> >> >>>> >> > regards,
>> >> >>>> >> > Sarma.
>> >> >>>> >> > _______________________________________________
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>> >> >>>> >> <javascript:;>
>> >> >>>> >> >
>> >> >>>> >>
>> >> >>>> >>
>> >> >>>> >> --
>> >> >>>> >> Regards
>> >> >>>> >>
>> >> >>>> >> -Venkatesh
>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >> >>>> >>
>> >> >>>> >
>> >> >>>> >
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> --
>> >> >>>> Regards
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> -Venkatesh
>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>>> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
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>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Regards
>> >> >>
>> >> >> -Venkatesh
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Regards
>> >>
>> >> -Venkatesh
>> >> _______________________________________________
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-- 
Regards

-Venkatesh