[Advaita-l] Shankara authenticates Shiva as the son of Brahma

[Venkatesh Murthy]

Namaste

This whole argument of Supremacy of Vishnu is like arguments of old
Brahmin widows knowing only Purana stories and having nothing better
to do. It has nothing to do with Philosophy of Advaita taught by Adi
Sankara.

Remember Sloka Tvayi Mayi Caanyatraiko Vishnuh Vyartham Kupyasi Mayi
Asishnuh Bhava Samacittah Sarvatra Tvam Vaanchasi Aciraadyadi
Vishnutvam.

Taratamya Bhava of Madhvacharya will guarantee you will not get Vishnutva.

On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 12:21 PM, D Gayatri via Advaita-l
<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> First of all, the whole Drona parvan incident smacks of interpolation. I
> will give you a number of reasons to show this.
>
> Let us assume, Shiva is Ishwara. Now Shiva gives a boon to Narayana, that
> the latter would be superior to the former. That means Shiva has lost his
> Ishwarahood permanently because he is no longer omnipotent . How ridiculous
> is that? Can Ishwara lose his Ishwarahood? The interpolators did not even
> have a proper understanding of the concept of Ishwara. There is no way
> Krishna-Dvaipayana could have written such nonsense. Moreover, even if this
> incident is true, it should show the greatness of Shiva whenever he loses
> in a fight with Vishnu. But the devas in the Ramayana deem Vishnu to be
> superior and not Shiva.
>
> Secondly, Sri Shankara bhagavatpAda has authenticated another incident in
> the Mahabharata. This one is from Shanti parvan, where Narayana shows his
> Vishnwaroopa to Narada. This incident has a back story. Narada visits the
> hermitage of sages Narayana and Nara to find out which god they worship. It
> is revealed subsequently that these sages worship the Deity Narayana. There
> is no mention that the sage Narayana worships Shiva. Thus, the worship of
> the Deity Narayana by the sage Narayana is authenticated by none other than
> Shankara himself.
>
> Thirdly, far from worshipping Shiva, the sages Nara and Narayana actually
> have a fight with Shiva, another incident recounted in the Mahabharata
> Shanti parvan.
>
> Fourthy, Madhvacharya, who was one of the earliest commentators on the
> Mahabharata, comments on the Narayanastra incident (where this incident of
> Narayana worshipping Shiva occurs), but does not say anything about Shiva
> being worshipped by Narayana. This fact is mentioned here -
>
> http://narayanastra.blogspot.in/p/blog-page_17.html
>
> [Let us see how madhvAcArya, who is the vedAntin to openly say that the
> mahAbhArata had been tampered with even as early as in his time, summarizes
> this section in his mahAbhArata tAtparya nirnaya.
>
> “Ashvatthama arrived. He employed Narayana Astra. Sri Krishna asked
> Pandavas to offer Pranamas to this astra and escape. All others followed
> Sri Krishna and escaped. However, Bhima did not follow. The astra fell on
> the head of Bhima, a fire erupted around. Arjuna covered Bhima by Varuna
> astra. Sri Krishna and Arjuna entered into the chariot of Bhima and brought
> him out of chariot. The fire of Narayanastra did not burn this
> three.Narayana Astra has to be respected by all. However, when an enemy
> employs it a Kshatriya has to fight it. Therefore Bhima did not offer
> pranama to it. Moreover Vayu is abhimani of the Astra and hence the fire
> did not hurt him. Then Ashvatthama employed Agnyastra which destroyed one
> akshauhini and Pandavas army. Arjuna escaped with the help of Shri Krishna.
> Ashwatthama became disgusted by this and threw away his bow. Sri Vedavyasa
> consoled him and asked him to continue to fight.” (~ mahAbhArata tAtparya
> nirnaya)]
>
> These then are some of the reasons to say that this part of the Mahabharata
> smacks of interpolation.
>
>
>
> On Saturday, 13 August 2016, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 7:31 PM, D Gayatri <dgayatrinov10 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Rama is supposed to behave exactly like a human being, because of
>>> brahma's boon to Ravana. So the comparison is incorrect. And if you talk of
>>> Ramayana, there is an incident described in bAla kANDa where the gods want
>>> to know whether Shiva or Vishnu is supreme. A fight ensues between them and
>>> Vishnu wins and the gods decide Vishnu is superior. That most certainly
>>> goes counter to your "Shiva is supreme" vAda.
>>
>>
>>
>> In this context one can read what Veda Vyasa says to Ashwatthama in the
>> MB:It is there in the Drona parva.  The complete details can be found in
>> the article:
>>
>> https://adbhutam.wordpress.com/2015/05/25/veda-vyasa-was-not-a-bigot/
>>
>> [[Nīlakanṭha said: By My grace, you Nārāyaṇa, will be of unequalled
>> strength among humans, gods and other divine beings.]
>>
>>
>>
>> न च त्वा प्रसहिष्यन्ति देवासुरमहोरगाः |
>>
>> न पिशाचा न गन्धर्वा न नरा न च राक्षसाः ||७५||
>>
>>
>>
>> न सुपर्णास्तथा नागा न च विश्वे वियोनिजाः |
>>
>> न कश्चित्त्वां च देवोऽपि समरेषु विजेष्यति ||७६||
>>
>>
>>
>> न शस्त्रेण न वज्रेण नाग्निना न च वायुना |
>>
>> नार्द्रेण न च शुष्केण त्रसेन स्थावरेण वा ||७७||
>>
>>
>>
>> कश्चित्तव रुजं कर्ता मत्प्रसादात्कथञ्चन |
>>
>> अपि चेत्समरं गत्वा भविष्यसि ममाधिकः ||७८||
>>
>>
>>
>> [Due to My grace, You, Nārāyaṇa, will not be harmed/killed by any of the
>> beings or weapons of this creation. * Also in the event of your entering
>> a battle, you will be more powerful than Me, Rudra.*]
>>
>> व्यास उवाच||
>>
>>
>>
>> एवमेते वरा लब्धाः पुरस्ताद्विद्धि शौरिणा |
>>
>> स एष देवश्चरति मायया मोहयञ्जगत् ||७९||
>>
>>
>>
>> Vyāsa concluded his reply to Ashwatthāma’s question: These boons were secured by
>>
>> Shourie (Hari) (from Rudra).  Hari, wanders this earth deluding beings with Māyā. ]
>>
>>
>>
>> तस्यैव तपसा जातं नरं नाम महामुनिम् |
>>
>> तुल्यमेतेन देवेन तं जानीह्यर्जुनं सदा ||८०||
>>
>>
>>
>> [Of His (Nārāyaṇa’s) penance has Arjuna, the Nara, been born.  Arjuna is equal to Nārāyana.
>>
>> Thus Vyāsa answered Ashvatthāma’s question on how/why indeed Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna remained unaffected by the Āgneya missile that was released against them.]
>>
>>
>>
>> The above episode of the MB is also reflected in the Harivamśa:
>>
>> http://www.mahapashupatastra.com/2011/12/top-n-reasons-to-call-bhagawatam-bogus.html
>>
>> “yathA mainAkamAshritya tapastvamakaroH prabho |
>> tathA mama varaM kR^iShNa saMsmR^itya sthairyamApnuhi |
>> avadhyastvamajeyashcha mattaH shUratarastathA |
>> bhavitAsItyavochaM yattattathA na tadanyathA |” (Harivamsa Purana
>> 2:74:37-38)
>>
>> “*O kRiShNa! As you did penance staying on mainAka, you received a boon
>> from me. Be firm in your mind, remembering that boon. You can not be
>> killed, you can not be conquered, and you will be more valiant than me. All
>> this will happen as told by me. None will be able to change this*”.
>>
>> It is because of this that wherever there is a ‘fight’ reported between
>> Rudra and Nārāyaṇa, in the MB or the Vālmiki Rāmāyaṇa or anywhere else,
>> where Nārāyāna is invariably the winner.  This is the boon granted by Shiva
>> to Nārāyaṇa: *you will be more valiant than me.*
>>
>> Obfuscating this fact, the bigoted ones try to show Śiva as someone
>> inferior who is subdued by Nārāyaṇa.
>>
>>
>> In fact in the VR itself, when Rama fought elsewhere, the comparison is:
>> Rama fought like Rudra.
>>
>>
>> In the article cited above, the MB instance where Vishnu and Brahma are
>> born of Shiva is also recorded. So, there is no point in saying 'Shiva is
>> son of Brahma'.  Veda Vyasa has said all these.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, 13 August 2016, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 5:32 PM, D Gayatri via Advaita-l <
>>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Alright, you have a point. So I will explain why you can't compare
>>>>> birth of
>>>>> Rudra from Prajapati to that of Ishwara taking an incarnation. This is
>>>>> because, the baby Rudra, in the satapatha brahmana episode, cries that
>>>>> he
>>>>> is not free from sins. Certainly, this is not the mark of Ishwara, since
>>>>> Ishwara is always free from sins.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rama in the VR laments he is suffering only because of his past karma.
>>>> Is that a mark of Ishwara? Also, in the Shatapatha brahmana, I have seen a
>>>> Sayana bhashya saying that it is an ā
>>>>
>>>>
>>
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-- 
Regards

-Venkatesh