[Advaita-l] Shankara authenticates Shiva as the son of Brahma

[V Subrahmanian]

On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 6:59 AM, Srinath Vedagarbha <svedagarbha at gmail.com>
wrote:

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>>>> It clearly establishes the fact that Rudra's power is due to Vishnu.
>>>> Please note interesting part here that shruti uses "vishNu" shabda and not
>>>> nArayaNa shabda. This refutes other member's argument that Narayana is
>>>> different from "Vishnu" and trimUrthi's power is from nAryaNa.
>>>>
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>> The above kind of depiction in the Puranas and the Veda is addressed to
>> those who cannot take the ultimate truth straightaway.  It is like the
>> picture book and stories that are required to convey the subtle truth.
>>
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> This kind of nirNaya (on purANa/vEda vAkyas) itself must be conveyed by
> some pramANa in order to be true, for at the end of day all we speak must
> be be based on pramANas. There is no such evidence present.
>

Veda Vyasa has said in the Sūtasamhitā, part of Skanda purāṇa:

For the original article see here:

http://advaita-academy.org/the-sutasamhita-part-14/

The verses is given below:

Verse 101

क्वचित्कदाचिदन्यार्थं वक्ति च ब्रह्मणः पृथक् ।

साध्यसाधनसम्बन्धकथनं फलभाषणम् ॥ १०१॥

क्वचित् somewhere कदाचित् sometimes अन्यार्थं other thing वक्ति says च too
ब्रह्मणः from Brahman पृथक् different साध्यसाधनसम्बन्धकथनं the stating of
means and end and their connection फलभाषणम् the fruit

Verse 102

जगद्वैचित्र्यनिर्देशो धर्माधर्मार्थभाषणम् ।

वर्णाश्रमविभागोक्तिस्तद्धर्मोक्तिस्तथैव च ॥ १०२॥

जगद्वैचित्र्यनिर्देशः presenting the variegated nature of the world
धर्माधर्मार्थभाषणम् stating the fruit of merit and demerit
वर्णाश्रमविभागोक्तिः stating the distinction of caste and stage in life
तद्धर्मोक्तिः the duties thereof  तथा and एव only च too

Verse 103

शोभनाशोभनोक्तिश्च भूतभौतिकभाषणम् ।

शब्दानां भेदनिर्देशस्तथाऽर्थानां च भाषणम् ॥ १०३॥

शोभनाशोभनोक्तिः  talk of good and bad च and भूतभौतिकभाषणम् talk of the
elements and elementals शब्दानां of words भेदनिर्देशः pointing to
difference तथा and अर्थानां of meaning च too भाषणम् statement

Verse 104

आत्मनोऽन्यस्य सर्वस्य सद्भावोक्तिः सुरर्षभाः ।

मिथ्यात्वभाषणं तस्य मायासद्भावभाषणम् ॥ १०४॥

आत्मनः from ātman अन्यस्य other सर्वस्य everything सद्भावोक्तिः stating of
existence सुरर्षभाः O! Foremost of Gods! मिथ्यात्वभाषणं declaring unreality
तस्य of that मायासद्भावभाषणम् stating the existence of māyā

Verse 105

मायात्वोक्तिश्च मायाया बन्ध इत्यभिभाषणम् ।

गुरुशिष्यकथोक्तिश्च ब्रह्मविद्याभिभाषणम् ॥ १०५॥

मायात्वोक्तिःstating of māyāhood  च and मायायाः from māyā बन्धः bondage इति
thus अभिभाषणम् declaring गुरुशिष्यकथोक्तिः narrating episodes of teacher
and taught च and ब्रह्मविद्याभिभाषणम् delineating the knowledge of Brahman

Verse 106

शास्त्राणामपि निर्देशस्तर्काणामपि भाषणम् ।

अन्यद्वितर्कजालं यत्तदुक्तिश्च समासतः ।

अन्यार्थेन परं ब्रह्म श्रुतिः साध्वी न तत्परा ॥ १०६॥

शास्त्राणाम् of disciplines अपि also निर्देशः alluding तर्काणाम् of
reasonings अपि too भाषणम् stating अन्यत् other वितर्कजालं false reasonings
यत् which तदुक्तिः that stating च too समासतः concisely अन्यार्थेन with
different purpose परं supreme ब्रह्म Brahman श्रुतिः Veda साध्वी virtuous न
not तत्परा that-intended

Verse 107

चित्तपाकानुगुण्येन श्रोतॄणां परमा श्रुतिः ।

सोपानक्रमतो देवा मन्दं मन्दं हितं नृणाम् ॥ १०७॥

चित्तपाकानुगुण्येन as per the mental make up   श्रोतॄणां of the aspirants
परमा the great श्रुतिः Veda सोपानक्रमतः step by step देवाः O Gods! मन्दं
मन्दं gradually हितं beneficial नृणाम् of men

Verse 108

उपदिश्य विषण्णाऽपि पुनः पक्वाधिकारिणः ।

ऐतदात्म्यमिदं सर्वमित्याह परमाद्वयम् ॥ १०८॥

उपदिश्य having taught विषण्णा regret अपि though पुनः again पक्वाधिकारिणः to
the ripe aspirants ऐतदात्म्यम् this-as-Ātman इदं this सर्वम् all  इति thus
आह declared परमाद्वयम् supreme non-dual

The purport of the above verses (from 101 to 108) is:

In this strain are mentioned, the end that is sought, the means for it as
also the relation between them, diverse nature of the universe, dharma and
adharma, the classification as also the duties pertaining to varṇa-s and
āśrama-s, of good and evil, the physical elements and their derivatives,
the distinction pertaining to words, and their meanings, the existence of
all else other than Ātman.

These are for seekers with feebler equipment. For seekers in the middle
range, with better equipment are mentioned –

Illusory nature of the world, existence of Māyā, Māyā as being responsible
for illusion, bondage as due to Māyā, episodes relating to the Master and
the disciple, Brahmavidyā (as the dispeller of primal ignorance),
Mahāvākya-s (sentence proclaiming the identity of the individual Self and
the Supreme Self) and reasoning as auxiliary, or, in brief, a host of such
other constructs.

All this is for the sake of the respective seekers.  The purport of the
Śruti, however, is not in these constructs or delineations.  She is
singularly devoted to the Supreme Brahman which is her own, true svarūpa
(essence).

In this manner, the great Śruti, depressed as she was, because of the
imperfect equipment on the part of the seekers and having offered
instruction leading each gradually, step by step, in his spiritual
progress, now unfolds, for the fully equipped, the Non-dual Absolute, in
the words – ‘All this is only the Ātman.’

One can see the MB contains all the stories, the dialogues about varna,
etc. dharma....

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>> There are also verses that show the trimurtis emerging from Shiva, in the
>> Mahabharata and other puranas. So, there is no finality for such
>> depictions.
>>
>> यस्त्वां वेत्ति स मां वेत्ति यस्त्वामनु स मामनु।
>> नावयोरन्तरं किंचिन्मा तेऽभूद्वुद्धिरन्यथा।।   12.352.67
>>
>> अद्यप्रभृति श्रीवत्सः शूलाङ्को मे भवत्वयम्।
>> मम पाण्यङ्कितश्चापि श्रीकण्ठस्त्वं भविष्यसि।। 12.352.68
>>
>> Translation:
>> Hari, then addressed the illustrious Īśāna and said these words:–He that
>> knows thee, knows me. He that follows thee, follows me. *There is no
>> difference between thee and me. Do thou never think otherwise.* The mark
>> made by thy lance on my chest will from this day assume the form of a
>> beautiful whirl (śrīvatsānka), and the mark of my hand on thy throat will
>> also assume a beautiful shape in consequence of which thou shalt, from this
>> day, be called by the name of Śrīkanṭha.
>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>
> First I doubt it is part of so called critical edition. Even if it is,
> since it contradict Rig. Veda, its prAmANya ceases to be valid  Do not
> forget apourusheya vEda has prabala pramANya over pourusheys works.
>

It does not matter whether it is or not in the critical edition. There are
'contradictions' coming not just from the purana but even from the
Upanishads!!  Jābāla, Shvetashvatara, Kaivalya and others have Shiva as the
Supreme Brahman.

vs

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