[Advaita-l] Shankara authenticates Shiva

[RAMESH RAMANAN]

Dear members,
I have heard it stated often by Sri Chandrashekarendra Saraswathi Mahaswami and other Shankaracharyas that the regular japa of Gayatri and chanting of Sri Rudram will definitely confer Moksha on the aspirant. May be, it leads to Chitta Shuddhi and direct attainment of self-knowledge, which some may not be able to express, but only experience internally and so we may not be fitting judges of what others have achieved or not achieved. The older people, mentioned in the email relating to this topic may have  achieved self-knowledge experientially, but may not be able to express it, but that does not give us a licence to sit in judgement over them. Regards, Ramesh Ramanan. 

    On Friday, 19 August 2016, 9:44, V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
 

 One can see an article here by a member whose identity many people in this
forum do not know of:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/science-religion-philosophy/LIUh1wz4zGw

vs

On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 9:23 AM, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 1:13 AM, Sujal Upadhyay via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>> Namaste,
>>
>> Where did you find these discussions *started* by Advaitin, claiming Siva
>> is supreme and that vishnu is not supreme?
>>
>> Advaitins in general do not attack any school of thought, not atleast
>> active members in this list, unless they find something objectionable on
>> the net and they reply to it or post a link to that reply. For us,
>> superiority of any God does not matter.
>>
>
> This is true. There are some bloggers and their supporters, who try to
> portray Shankara as a vaishnava who had bias towards Vishnu and held Shiva
> to be inferior. In order to dispel this mispropaganda posts that bring out
> the views of Veda Vyasa and Shankara have been found necessary. An
> Advaitin, following Veda Vyasa and Shankara is never biased towards or
> against any deity.  This is because Advaita is not a deity-dependent
> system. Other schools alone have to safeguard constantly their deity from
> the supremacy of any other deity.
>
> regards
> vs
>
>>
>> To talk straight, I had a direct interaction with authors of Narayanastra
>> Blog over email and on other forums. The claims that they are making
>> simply
>> didnt fit advaita. They consider VSN bhashya as authentic work of Adi
>> Sankara. When shown quotes #27 Siva and #114 rudra and #505 soma, they
>> will
>> ignore. Then they quote Madhusudan Sarasvati, a great kRShNa bhakta. When
>> shown quotes from Siddhanta Bindu, BG or his unique commentary on Siva
>> mahimna stotra - all showing Siva = Vishnu, they will disregard it as mere
>> grammatical play of words. They will disregard writings of Sri Vidyaranya
>> Swami. They will disregard the whole set of puranas as tamasika. They will
>> disregard all the pUrvAchArya-s of advaita who saluted to Siva or Ganesha
>> and say that they are not following true teachings of Adi Sankara.
>> Honestly, in the beginning all seems well to discuss with them, but as
>> discussion continues, they become hostile, start name calling openly in
>> public forums like Veera Shaiva, etc, and their language changes.
>> Apologies
>> for directly brining them here, but many posts here that you are pointing
>> out are replies to them.
>>
>> Honestly, I have seen few Vaishnavas who are very knowledgeable and keep
>> attacking Siva bhakta-s on internet. I have been personally attacked most
>> times by Gaudiya Vaishnavas and also by Sri Vaishnavas. I talked to 2
>> people running blogs proving supremacy of Siva and have seen all those
>> quotes that you said in their blog. They both said that if one says Siva =
>> Vishnu, our differences end here. Infact on author is a Rama bhakta like
>> me. Both authors are not Saiva-s.
>>
>> Adi Sankara has also explained rudra in VSN, but you tend to ignore this
>> fact.
>>
>> Advaitin do not prove anything, nor Adi Sankara had written commentaries
>> with sole aim to prove viShNu supremacy.
>>
>> Two contradictory verses are not contradictory if we apply nAhi nindA
>> nyAya.
>>
>> Yes, the verses you mention are quoted recently and in past, but in
>> response to similar verses claiming Vishnu supremacy. I also agree that
>> words like 'Krishna begged' are used. But I have seen these words being
>> used by Vaishnava-s too. I know this is not right, but it happens.
>>
>> When there are proofs that claim superiority of Vishnu over Siva and then
>> there are proof that claim superiority of Siva over Vishnu, then the point
>> is that when one God is glorified and other is shown a lower status, it is
>> to instill bhakti in us. Gods themselves teach us devotion by one God
>> playing a role of devotee and another God playing role of Ishvara. As
>> smArta-s, how can we denigrate status of any Gods.  Both of them are
>> equal.
>> However, if someone is filled with hatred and the sole aim is to denigrate
>> the status of Vishnu, I will strongly disagree with him and if necessary
>> quote verses support Vishnu as supreme deity.
>>
>> Had there been no such topic, there would not have been such quotes.
>> Nobody
>> is stopping you from quoting verses. You are only getting replies. I have
>> not seen a discussion here that continues when both parties accept Siva =
>> Vishnu.
>>
>> You can quote praises on Vishnu as many times as you want and adore him to
>> your heart's content, translate various stotra-s dedicated to Vishnu and
>> post them here or give links. We will all enjoy. But when someone tries to
>> prove supremacy, then what has happened is expected.
>>
>> ​This argument seems to go on and on. To be fair, I would not mind you
>> replying, but will resist myself replying and retire from this
>> discussion.​
>>
>> Lastly, if, at any time, such verses are quoted by me in past, I ask for
>> apology and take my words back. If you are hurt by my words beg for
>> forgiveness.
>>
>> Hari OM
>> Kind Regards
>> Sujal
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 11:43 PM, D Gayatri <dgayatrinov10 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I dont know you who you are but I did not see you objecting when
>> > others were posting that
>> >
>> > (i) Shiva is alone fit to be worshipped by vaidikas
>> >
>> > or that
>> >
>> > (ii) Vishnu lives under Shiva's grace
>> >
>> > or that
>> >
>> > (iii) Krishna begged Shiva to forgive him (for God knows what)
>> >
>> > or that
>> >
>> > (iv) Vishnu pulled out one of his eyes and offered it to Shiva (you
>> > can see all the posts in this forum).
>> >
>> > After posting all this, these posters pay lip service sometimes and
>> > say - oh and by the way Shiva and Vishnu are equal!
>> >
>> > I suddenly don't understand what is the problem when Vishnu is praised
>> > and Shiva is shown as brahma's child when Sri Adi Shankara himself
>> > authenticates this.
>> >
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