[Advaita-l] sushupati anubhava of jnAni and ajnAni

[Aurobind Padiyath]

Dear Rajeshji,
No words can take the one who holds on to the reality of the waking world
alone as reality to the state beyond all the three states. One should
comprehend the reasoning of the experiences of all three states as mere
transient experiences, while the witness of all those states remains
unaffected by what ever happens in any of those states, including brain
injury or flying in the dream etc.
You are holding on to the waking state experiences alone to extrapolate to
the state beyond the three states and hence finding it difficult to move
forward.
Regards,
Aurobind Padiyath

On Sun, 17 Jan 2016 12:23 H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Sri Rajesh Ji,
>
> Reg  << <<<<he deha abhimAnam is likened to a fried seed which will not
> sprout
> again even if watered and tended generously with fertilizers etc.What I
> meant is all these can be studied in peace in a relaxed manner with the
> assurance I have pointed out.
> >>>>
>
> This statement, I think, is not valid in case of brain injury as it can
> change the whole nistha, a man can start thinking I am a women. If he/she
> has lost his/her memory then the first question he/she will ask will be
> "Who am I?" >>,
>
> No matter what happens during the interim period between attainment of
> Jnana and casting off of this body,the Shruti declares that there is no
> return to samsara for the Jiva subsequently. Period. He may be a Nishtha or
> not. Makes no difference to this position.  Any reasoning given  is only
> for our own intellectual satisfaction.If the reasoning is not satisfactory,
> other reasons can be looked for.Final position remains the same
>
> Regards
>
> On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 12:12 PM, Rajesh Benjwal via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > Namaste,
> >
> > Few points from the discussion.
> >
> > @ Durga Prasad Janaswamyji
> >
> > 1- This is certain that vidyA removes avaraNa only as vikshepa keep
> > going."VedAnta paribhasa" also says that and it is also yuktisammata.
> > prArabdha is considered as pratibandhaka in removal of vikshepa. So in
> that
> > case it is better to say that avidhyA is not totally out OR why we say
> that
> > only "lesh matra" avidhyA is there? avidhyA has two saktis one is avaraNa
> > and one is vikshepa, so only by removal on one how can we say that only
> > "lesh matra" remains.
> >
> > <<<<< It is odd if one says that I know my true swarUpa now but I may
> > forget my
> > true swarUpa sometime in future.
> > ​ >>>>>>
> >
> > It is not odd but very much possible. There are few cases where after
> > brain injury a male start thinking ​he is SHE and SHE is trapped in a
> male
> > body.
> >
> >
> > @Kuntimaddi Sadanandaji​
> >
> > OK
> >
> >
> >
> > @Aurobind Padiyathji
> > <<<<<<<<<<<This question doesn't have validity in the state of Janani
> > "Janathe dvaitam na vidhyate ". Your Austin can come up only when there
> is
> > Ajnana.
> > Janana and Ajanana or Vidya and Avidya are like light and darkness. Even
> > though opposing in nature, once light illumine darkness vanishes (often
> > explained as destroyed which is not correct as a thing has to be a vastu
> to
> > be destroyed but darkness is not a vastu but absence of light) That
> > darkness is both existing and non - existing. Existing because it gives
> > rise to misapprehension and nonexistent as the vastu it cannot be
> > described. This light of knowledge once dawns, all misapprehensions that
> > the absence of right knowledge created cannot come back. >>>>>>>>>>
> >
> > I would like to give two examples.
> >
> > 1- I used to not know rama shabda rupa, then I studied it and I remove
> the
> > ignorance of Rama Shanda rupa but nowdays again I forgot Rama shnda rupa
> > and I do not know it.
> >
> > 2- There are few cases where after brain injury a male start thinking ​he
> > is SHE and SHE is trapped in a male body.
> >
> > So the question is not invalid as far as I think as there is fair
> > possibility. Our brain is myterious.
> >
> >
> > @H S Chandramouliji
> > <<<<he deha abhimAnam is likened to a fried seed which will not sprout
> > again even if watered and tended generously with fertilizers etc.What I
> > meant is all these can be studied in peace in a relaxed manner with the
> > assurance I have pointed out.
> > >>>>
> >
> > This statement, I think, is not valid in case of brain injury as it can
> > change the whole nistha, a man can start thinking I am a women. If he/she
> > has lost his/her memory then the first question he/she will ask will be
> > "Who am I?"
> >
> >
> > @Praveenji
> > >>>>>>>>>>Not the rope-snake, but here your very example of desert water
> > works well. Having known that the water is nothing but its adhiShThAna
> > desert sand, one doesn't stop seeing it as water, because the refraction
> > superimposing water on the desert sand continues. Yet, one doesn't take
> it
> > to be real water.>>>>>>>>
> >
> > Correct. This is certain that vidyA removes avaraNa only as vikshepa keep
> > going."VedAnta paribhasa" also says that and it is also yuktisammata.
> > prArabdha is considered as pratibandhaka in removal of vikshepa. So in
> that
> > case it is better to say that avidhyA is not totally out OR why we say
> that
> > only "lesh matra" avidhyA is there?
> >
> >
> >
> > @ Durga Prasad Janaswamyji
> > >>>>>
> > For a j~nAni , jagat is badhitA / mithyA. Jagat includes this body mind
> > complex. One casualty in jnAnam is body mind complex.   Body mind complex
> > become badhitA , mithyAtva nischaya.
> > Who has interest in mirage-water? None.
> > Who has interest in mithyA vastu? None.
> > ​>>>>
> >
> > Right, but suppose, it is just a hypothetical question, brain injury
> happen
> > and he/she lost all it is memory and when get up ask "Who am I?" Then
> > ................... from here starts the question.
> >
> >
> >
> > *Some points I would like to add-*
> >
> >
> > It is a fair possibility that a person who has the jnAnam get his brain
> > injured and ask "Who am I" when he gets up. If someone think this is not
> > possible then I think discussion end here. If some one think it is
> possible
> > but it will not halt the jnAni videhamukti then there is possibility of
> > discussion. And this is actually what I want to know, why?
> >
> > Of-course a jnAni is not body, this is his firm conclusion, but
> > brain injury can alter this conclusion.
> >
> >
> > People can forget their gender also and start thinking they are
> > of opposite sex, People feel pain in a hand which is not there at all,
> this
> > is known as phantom hand,
> >  brain behaves in very mysterious ways
> > ​.​
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ​
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 9:37 AM, Praveen R. Bhat via Advaita-l <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Namaste Chandramouliji,
> > >
> > >
> > > << Only for vikShepa itself to be taken as real, AvaraNa is
> necessary.>>,
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Would it not be more appropriate to state that what was निरुपाधिक
> > > भ्रान्ति
> > > > (nirupAdhika bhrAnti ) prior to Jnana becomes सोपाधिक भ्रान्ति
> > (sopAdhika
> > > > bhrAnti ) after attainment of Jnana ?? The corresponding illustration
> > > would
> > > > be that of moonlight and the moon itself.  भ्रान्ति (bhrAnti )
> > continues
> > > > as long as the उपाधि (upAdhi)  lasts, but its reality does not.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I don't know if its more appropriate but it looks like another
> > appropriate
> > > way of looking at it. One common example given to understand that the
> > > removal of AvaraNa doesn't remove the vikShepa, is that even if we know
> > > that the sun doesn't really rise or set, it doesn't stop our seeing the
> > > as-though sunrise and sunset.
> > >
> > > Kind rgds,
> > > --Praveen R. Bhat
> > > /* Through what should one know That owing to which all this is known!
> > > [Br.Up. 4.5.15] */
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > *Rajesh Benjwal*
> >
> >  e:rbenjwal at gmail.com | w:ractors.com |
> > <http://facebook.com/rajesh.benjwal>
> >
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-- 

Aurobind Padiyath
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