[Advaita-l] Fwd: Adhyāropa, mithyāpratyaya, etc. admitted in the Bhāgavatam

Ravi Kiran ravikiranm108 at gmail.com
Mon Jul 4 21:31:09 CDT 2016


On Mon, Jul 4, 2016 at 10:44 PM, Sujal Upadhyay <sujal.u at gmail.com> wrote:

> praNAms,
> We engage with samsAra because of various reasons.
> First is aGYAna. Since many life times have have been within samsAra.
> Second, after GYAna, if Ishvara has some divine plan of which you are to
> be a part of, then pseudo ego is left, as ego, mind, etc is necessary to
> retain a faint link with body.
> Third, the GYAna is not aparoksha, it is informative from shAstra-s and
> from words of guru or AchArya. Here one has to make attempts to purity mind
> and make it introvert, then introvert mind should be rooted in source.
> Since this is an ongoing process and is not yet complete, there are
> vAsanA-s that need to be fulfilled. Also mind cannot stay inward 24x7. It
> needs an emotional outlet, hence we need to be active in samsAra.
> Lastly, even if one has experienced GYAna, still s/he cannot abide in it
> permanently, here there may or may not be social activity. Some renounce
> samsAra and take up sanyAsa, some keep doing karma but are always detached
> from body, mind and ego by guru's grace and Ishvara's grace.

In this conversation context, let  us say samsAra as any activity (kriye)
with an apparent other (unreal).

As Sruti says.. salila eko draṣṭādvaito bhavati

this infinite being (self), fully embraced by the Supreme Self, not know
anything at all, either external or internal. That is his form—in which all
objects of desire have been attained and are but the self, and which is
free from desires and devoid of grief...

... there is not that second thing separate from it which it can know...

...It becomes (transparent) like water, one, the witness, and without a

If this is so, why engage with samsAra , accepting an apparent other,
though unreal ? As mentioned earlier, it is, that one's svabhAva,
as though performing karma, though akarmi one is,..
as though extinguishing prArabdha, though one sees no prArabdha, in that
jnAna svarUpa ..

> There is also an explanation for jivanmukta-s doing karma to extinguish
> their prArabhdha.

> Please remember, samsAra is in mind.
> OM
> ​Sujal


> On Mon, Jul 4, 2016 at 9:36 PM, Ravi Kiran <ravikiranm108 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> praNAms
>> On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 11:47 AM, Sujal Upadhyay via Advaita-l <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>> PraNAms,
>>> Thank you Pravin ji for the help.
>>> Ravi ji, Mind exists even when one is rooted in Atman, else how would you
>>> explain the concept of jivanmukta and sthita praGYa?
>>> Mind merges in Brahman, and all thoughts, body actions are taken care by
>>> Ishvara
>>> Perhaps these updesha-s are there for us and not for deva-s. We will have
>>> to stay rooted in Atman, stay detached, considering this world as mithyA
>>> and never get attached to thoughts, emotions and sense objects.
>>> While meditating, some think only after all desires are uprooted then one
>>> experiences first glimpse of samAdhi. People following yoga may have this
>>> view. However, in my opinion this is not true.  In deep sleep mind is
>>> merged in Brahman, but one is not aware about this union. In samAdhi, one
>>> is conscious of the process of merging before one enters non-dual state.
>>> One clearly experiences separateness from that which is non-self and sees
>>> own body as one would see others bodies. Mind merges in Atman, but since
>>> not all desires are uprooted, mind again awakes, separates itself and 'I'
>>> the consciousness again gets trapped into the 5 kosha-s. This keeps
>>> happening until one day all desires are uprooted. The duration of
>>> remaining
>>> established in samAdhi increases gradually until one day no more desires
>>> are left and the rooting becomes permanent. Now there is no need to
>>> meditate to know your true nature. You already know it.
>>> Neti-neti and anvaya-vyatireka also teaches to stay focused on Atman. The
>>> very process of separation indicates that there is something to separate.
>>> How will one explain staying rooted in Atman yet seeing things,
>>> experiencing them and separating ourselves from them? For a jivan mukta,
>>> there is no process, but for a sAdhaka, there is a process of separation,
>>> hence duality exists. But the end result of this process of negation is
>>> abiding in non-dual state, where there is no one else to experience
>>> Atman.
>>> Coming back, when mind again wakes up and gets separated from Atman, it
>>> tries to retain all the bliss, consciousness (source of it's power) and
>>> the
>>> non-dual experience, which is ultimate truth along with it. Hence Atman
>>> or
>>> Brahman is described as a result of retention of experience.
>>> These explanations are for the sake explanation. In reality, mind never
>>> touches or comes in contact with Atman, as mind and senses falls back
>>> before it can reach Atman. Hence mind does not merges with Atman. Atman
>>> always remains untouched by anything else.  But it is difficult to
>>> understand and digest, hence dual terminology is used so that one can
>>> finally stay as they are, in natural state - Atman. Hence the world
>>> (jagat)
>>> never exists in Atman. that is why it is called as unreal. samsAra is
>>> that
>>> which is by us, jIva, hence IMO it is jiva shrishti.
>> Well explained Sujal ji ..Thank you
>>> When mind is not engaged with samsAra, it moves back towards it's source.
>>> There is no third place to go :)
>> Nice statement ..knowingly one engages with samsAra, since for such a one
>> is not subjected to ajnAna, samshaya, viparyaya of one's own Atma svarUpa
>> ..there is no bAdha (sublation) of Atma svarUpa jnAna taking place even
>> while engaging with samsAra..
>> but, why would one engage with samsAra?..at the most, we can say, it is
>> one's svabhAva ..
>> OM

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