[Advaita-l] About Satyakama

[H S Chandramouli]

I fully endorse Sri Venkatraghavan's views, especially dragging family
members into the " discussion ". I request the Moderators to expunge the
reference to family members from the concerned post.

On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> This entire discussion is deeply unedifying. There is no need to get
> personal, and to drag family members into this is inexcusable.
>
> Please stop, everyone.
> On 27 Jun 2016 8:03 p.m., "Jaldhar H. Vyas via Advaita-l" <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 27 Jun 2016, Aurobind Padiyath wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Sri Vyasji,
> >> Mind your words, it doesn't speak good of you.
> >>
> >
> > Some words I mind include "The purpose of Advaita-L is to discuss
> > advaita-vedAnta as taught by SrI Sankara and the smArta sampradAya."  I
> > don't remember anything about catering to the whims of nastikas in there.
> >
> > Learn to admit that
> >> Bhashyakara was not impeccable and did have his own limitations.
> >>
> >
> > All those of us who have struggled to understand under the guidance of
> > Shankara Bhagavatapada must rejoice that we now have the superior wisdom
> of
> > the great vidvan Aurobind Padiyath to lead us instead.
> >
> >
> > With all reverence to Acharaya for his elucidation of the shaastras, I
> will
> >> not hesitate to point out where he has twisted the originals to meet
> some
> >> compulsion of his times which we are unaware of today.
> >>
> >
> > Such an intellectual daredevil!  In fact this bogus interpretation of the
> > satyakama story was refuted the day the first idiot reformer expounded
> it.
> > It is a testament to the mental backwardness of modern India that it is
> > still being peddled in 2016.
> >
> > To evaluate his commentary is not an ordinary task. But where he had his
> >> prejudice to highlight Brahamins by birth ( जात्या ब्राह्मणः) and due to
> >> this if he had over stepped in twisting the shaastras,  it need to be
> >> accepted.
> >>
> >
> > And now we were getting to the bottom of the issue.  You are not
> motivated
> > by a desire to understand the truth of the meaning of shruti but by
> > politics.  Why then even bother hiding under the skirts of shastra?  Just
> > create your own Aurobind Upanishad which says whatever you want.
> >
> > Of all the various manias of the modernists this bizarre need to show
> thst
> > caste is not based on birth is one of the weirdest.  The English medium
> set
> > treat it like it some kind of anomaly  but there is no need for
> > text-juggling.  We know from DNA evidence that it has been based on birth
> > for at least EIGHT HUNDRED years before the advent of Shankaracharya.
> What
> > remains to be explained is why people like you cannot grasp something the
> > simplest villager understands.
> >
> >
> > There is even one incident where his own disciple Sri Sureswaracharya
> >> himself corrects his master of his over zealous approach in protecting
> the
> >> rights of above class.
> >>
> >
> > Which youtube video did you learn that in? In the sampradaya there are
> > differences of emphasis here and there but broad agreement in general.
> Can
> > you show any Advaita acharya who disagrees with Shankaracharya on the
> > interpretation of _this_ particular shruti?
> >
> >
> >> Few places where this has been done are:
> >> 1. Jabala's statement of " as a young maiden,  I had served many (बह्वहं
> >> चरन्तीत्यादि )  as a Bahucharini, she had entertained many." Is the
> >> Upanishad
> >> wordings.
> >>
> >>
> > Your continuing efforts to besmirch the virtue of a bharatiya nari are
> not
> > very progressive at all.
> >
> > Anyway as you have kindly provided the text let's see what it says...
> >
> > ४,४.१
> >>
> >> सत्यकामो ह जाबालो जबालां मातरमामन्त्रयां चक्रे ।
> >> ब्रह्मचर्यं भवति विवत्स्यामि किंगोत्रो न्वहमस्मीति ॥ ४,४.१ ॥
> >>
> >>
> > "satyakAma the jAbAlA declared[1] to his mother jabAlA, "I wish to take
> > brahmachArya.  Which gotra am I?"
> >
> > [1] In Gujarati AmantraNa means an invitation. So here I think the
> > appropriate translation is "declared" or "addressed"
> >
> > __________
> >>
> >> भाष्य ४,४.१ सर्वं वागाद्यग्न्यादि चान्नान्नादत्वसंस्तुतं जगदेकीकृत्य
> >> षोडशधा प्रविभज्य
> >> तस्मिन्ब्रह्मदृष्टिर्विधातव्येत्यारभ्यते ।
> >> श्रद्धातपसोर्ब्रह्मोपासनाङ्गत्वप्रदर्शनायाऽख्यायिका ।
> >> सत्यकामो ह नामतो हशब्द ऐतिह्यार्थो जबालाया अपत्यं जाबालो जबलां स्वां
> >> मातरमामन्त्रयाञ्चक्र
> >> आमन्त्रितवान् ।
> >> ब्रह्मचर्यं स्वाध्यायग्रहणाय हे भवति विवत्स्याम्याचार्यकुले,
> >> किङ्गोत्रोऽहं किमस्य मम गोत्रं सोऽहं
> >> न्वहमस्मीति ॥१ ॥
> >> ४,४.२
> >>
> >>
> > "Having explained all as speech, fire etc., food and the eater of food as
> > the components of the world divided into sixteen parts the establishment
> of
> > those as brahman begins.[2] This story[3] depicts shraddhA and tapa as
> the
> > a~ngas of brahmopAsanA.  satyakAma by name called jAbAla, the word ha
> > connotes relationship, the son of jabAlA, declared to his mother,
> declared
> > means formally addressed.[4] "I wish to take brahmacharya", brahmacharya
> is
> > the recitation of the Veda[5] in the AchAryas house. "Which gotra am I"
> to
> > which gotra do I belong to.
> >
> > [2] These are various upasanas that have been described in the previous
> > section of the upanishad.  Now it aims to show that these are meditations
> > on Brahman."
> >
> > [3] akhyAyikA.
> >
> > [4] See my note [1] above.
> >
> > [5] svAdhyAya.  There are other duties of a brahmachAri but this is the
> > main one.
> >
> > सा हैनमुवाच ।
> >> नाहमेतद्वेद तात यद्गोत्रस्त्वमसि ।
> >> बह्वहं चरन्ती परिचारिणी यौवने त्वामलभे ।
> >> साहमेतन्न वेद यद्गोत्रस्त्वमसि ।
> >> जबाला तु नामाहमस्मि ।
> >> सत्यकामो नाम त्वमसि ।
> >> स सत्यकाम एव जाबालो ब्रुवीथा इति ॥ ४,४.२ ॥
> >>
> >>
> > "She said to him 'I don't know which gotra are you. In my youth when I
> got
> > you I had been busy with many as an attendant[6] so I do not know your
> > gotra. But I am named jabAlA and you are named satyakAma thus you may
> call
> > yourself satyakAma jAbAlA"
> >
> > [6] Shri Subrahmaniam has already explained why your interpretation of
> > bahvahaM charanti is wrong.  Let us look at the other word parichAriNI.
> > This is a feminine noun meaning one who does parichArya and here is the
> > dictionary definition of that word: 1. service, attendence. 2. Adoration,
> > worship.  Now think about the second definition for a minute.  When we do
> > puja, how do we serve the deity?  You provide water for ablutions and
> > bathing, fresh clothes, garland, food etc. In other words the upacharas
> of
> > puja mimic in a more formal, styized way the steps you would take to
> > welcome a guest.  For a grhastha, hospitality is an important part of his
> > dharma.  (atithi devo bhava as another upanishad says.)  It falls upon
> the
> > gR^ihiNI to organize all this.  She would be proud to say there were many
> > guests in her home.  I don't know how Mrs. Padiyath entertains guests but
> > my experience is there is no sexual connotation to hospitality.  But in
> one
> > of your links Prabhupada (who is not even an Advaitin and a joke even
> > amongst Vaishnavas) goes as far as to call her a prostitute.  How
> apalling!
> >
> > __________
> >>
> >> भाष्य ४,४.२ एवं पृष्टा जबाला सा हैनं पुत्रमुवाचनाहमेतत्तव गोत्रं वेद हे
> >> तात यद्गोत्रस्त्वमसि ।
> >> कस्मान्न वेत्सीत्युक्ताऽहबहु भर्तृगृहे परिचर्याजातमतिथ्यभ्यागतादि
> >> चरन्त्यहं परिचारिणी
> >> परिचरन्तीति परिचरणशीलैवाहं परिचरणचित्ततया गोत्रादिस्मरणे मम मनो नाभूत् ।
> >> यौवने च तत्काले त्वामलभे लब्धवत्यस्मि ।
> >> तदैव ते पितोपरतः ।
> >> अतोऽनाथाहं साहमेतन्न वेद यद्गोत्रस्त्वमसि ।
> >> जबाला तु नामाहमस्मि सत्यकामो नाम त्वमसि स त्वं सत्यकाम एवाहं
> >> जाबालोऽस्मीत्याचार्याय
> >> ब्रुवीथाः यद्याचार्येण पृष्ट इत्यभिप्रायः ॥२ ॥
> >>
> >
> >
> > "Having being thus questioned jabAlA replies to her son, my dear 'I do
> not
> > know which gotra are you' Why it is asked.  She replies 'as an attendent'
> > in my husbands house I was busy[7] as an attendent attending upon many
> > guests. 'so I do not know your gotra.' being constantly busy, asking
> about
> > gotra etc. did not enter into my mind. 'In my youth...' at the time when
> I
> > gave birth to you.  At that time your father died. Being a widow I do not
> > know your gotra.[8] 'I am named jabAlA and you are named satyakAma'
> > therefore 'call yourself satyakAma jAbAlA' when your acharya asks you.
> >
> > [7] charanti literally means moving to and fro but I think busy is a more
> > apt translation.
> >
> > [8] The idea is that if satyakAmas father had been alive he would have
> > known the answer.
> >
> > ४,४.३, ४
> >>
> >> स ह हारिद्रुमतं गौतममेत्योवाच ।
> >> ब्रह्मचर्यं भगवति वत्स्यामि ।
> >> उपेयां भगवन्तमिति ॥ ४,४.३ ॥
> >>
> >>
> > "To the son of haridrumata, gautama, he[9] said 'bhagavAn may I come to
> > you as your brahmachAri?'"
> >
> > [9] satyakAma
> >
> > तं होवाच किंगोत्रो नु सोम्यासीति ।
> >> स होवाच ।
> >> नाहमेतद्वेद भो यद्गोत्रोऽहमस्मि ।
> >> अपृच्छं मातरम् ।
> >> सा मा प्रत्यब्रवीद्बह्वहं चरन्ती परिचरिणी यौवने त्वामलभे ।
> >> साहमेतन्न वेद यद्गोत्रस्त्वमसि ।
> >> जबाला तु नामाहमस्मि ।
> >> सत्यकामो नाम त्वमसीति ।
> >> सोऽहं सत्यकामो जाबालोऽस्मि भो इति ॥ ४,४.४ ॥
> >>
> >>
> > "He[10] said to him 'which is your gotra dear child?' He[11] said 'I
> don't
> > know sir.  I asked the question what is my gotra to my mother and she
> > replied 'In my youth when I got you I had been busy with many as an
> > attendant so I do not know your gotra. But I am named jabAlA and you are
> > named satyakAma' Therefore I am satyakAma jAbAlA."
> >
> > [10] gautama hAridrumata
> >
> > [11] satyakAma again
> >
> > __________
> >>
> >> भाष्य ४,४.४ स ह सत्यकामो हारिद्रुमतं हरिद्रुमतोऽपत्यं हारिद्रुमतं गौतमं
> >> गोत्रत एत्य गत्वोवाच
> >> ब्रह्मचर्यं भगवति पूजावति त्वयि वत्स्याम्यत उपेयामुपगच्छेयं शिष्यतया
> >> भगवन्तमित्युक्तवन्तं तं होवाच
> >> गौतमः ।
> >> किङ्गोत्रो नु सोम्यासीति विज्ञातकुलगोत्रः शिष्य उपनेतव्य इति पृष्टः
> >> प्रत्याह सत्यकामः ।
> >> स होवाच नाहमेतद्वेद भो यद्गोत्रोऽहमस्मि ।
> >> किं त्वपृच्छं पृष्टवानस्मि मातरम् ।
> >> सा मया पृष्टा मां प्रत्यब्रवीन्माता ।
> >> बह्वहं चरन्तीत्यादि पूर्ववत् ।
> >> तस्या अहं वचः स्मरामि सोऽहं सत्यकामो जाबालोऽस्मि भो इति ॥३ ।। , ।। ४ ॥
> >>
> >>
> > satyakAma having approached hAridrumata, the son of haridrumata, gautama,
> > said 'I wish to take up brahmachArya bhagavAn', i.e. to live with you as
> a
> > student. Having spoken thus gautama said 'which is your gotra dear child'
> > in order to ascertain the family gotra for giving upanayana to the
> > pupil[12] Having been asked thus satyakAma replied 'I don't know sir'
> etc.
> >
> > [12] This has been a part of the upanayana ritual in ancient times, in
> > medieval times and in 2015 when my son Nilagriva approached his acharya
> > (our family purohit not me) carrying samidha and was asked what his gotra
> > was.
> >
> >
> > All commentaries are interpretations (and btw have you noticed no other
> > vedantic sampradaya believes this slander about jabAlA?) but from the
> above
> > we can clearly see that contrary to your scurrilous assertion,
> > Shankaracharya has not only not "twisted" the meaning but provided the
> most
> > plausible explanation.
> >
> > Now you may not like the implications of what the shruti is saying but
> > that's your problem no one elses.  Wishful thinking is going to change
> the
> > truth.
> >
> > --
> > Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> > http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
> >
> > To unsubscribe or change your options:
> > http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
> >
> > For assistance, contact:
> > listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>
> To unsubscribe or change your options:
> http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>
> For assistance, contact:
> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>