[Advaita-l] Fwd: Why only jagat is mithya and jeeva is brahman !!??

[V Subrahmanian]

Everybody, all schools, admit the 'body is the self' as an adhyasa. Without
that adhyāsa, even Ishvara will not create a new body for a jiva to
experience karma and to produce new karma. So, one cannot say 'there is
already a body and one gets the idea of self in it'. Now, for dvaitins, the
adhyasta vastu is atyanta asat, like hare's horn. in the case of the
rope-snake, one can say that there is a real snake and one sees its
semblance in the rope. But in the 'primary' body-adhyāsa, how does it work?
If the rope-snake analogy is to be applied,in this case too, for the
body-is-the-self adhyāsa to happen, the 'body'  must be known before. Where
was that body? Are there two bodies, one that is real and another that is
asat?

Samsāra, including the adhyāsa, is admitted to be anādi. In advaita, it is
held that the pūrva-adhyāsa is responsible for the uttara adhyāsa. No one
can say from when, how, anyone got the 'first' body-adhyāsa.

On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 12:26 PM, Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Namaste all,
>
> I am responding to the substantive portion of Sri Shiv Dinkar's argument.
> Let us leave the other emotive points about Advaita and advaitins aside, as
> they doesn't merit a response.
>
> Essentially his argument is for any adhyAsa of jagat to happen on the
> adhishThAna Brahman, two things are necessary as a rule - sine qua non, in
> his words.
>
> 1) there must be a previous knowledge of the adyastha vastu and adhishThAna
> vastu.
> 2) there must be similarity between adhyastha vastu and adhishThAna.
>
> Re rule 1, we agree. However that doesn't mean that the knowledge of the
> previous adhyastha vastu is of a *satya* vastu. If I see a ghost in a
> horror movie and when walking back from the cinema theater I see a shadow
> and think it is the ghost I saw, that is an adhyAsa of a ghost in the
> adhishThAna shadow. However, the basis for the previous ghost knowledge
> that enabled me to superimpose a ghost on the shadow now is not a  ghost
> that has paramArtha satyam. It is a mithyA ghost seen in a film.
>
> So while the requirement of prior knowledge of adhyastha vastu is fine, it
> is not necessary that the knowledge is generated by a real vastu "sine qua
> non". Even a mithyA vastu can generate the sanskAra for future adhyAsa.
>
> 2) Secondly, there is no absolute rule that similarity between adhyastha
> vastu and adhishThAna vastu be there for all adhyAsa to happen. Children
> and ignorant people look at the sky and say the sky is blue. Blueness is
> not an attribute of the sky, nor is there any similarity between blueness
> and sky. What is the similarity between mirage water and sand?
> This rule for similarity is just arbitrary and not "sine qua non".
>
> Anyway, Shivji, the reason I chose to respond to the two points was not
> because I thought logic could convince you - you have already dismissed my
> logical abilities :) - but in case other people have similar doubts about
> the requirements for adhyAsa.
>
> I also have no problem with your emotional outburst and wish you well in
> your understanding of dvaita.
>
> Regards,
> Venkatraghavan
>
>
> On 25 Mar 2016 6:08 a.m., "Venkatraghavan S" <agnimile at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I believe this message was not sent to the list, forwarding for the sake
> of completion.
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: "SHIVPRASAD DINKAR" <harivayus at bellsouth.net>
> > Date: 24 Mar 2016 10:22 p.m.
> > Subject: Why only jagat is mithya and jeeva is brahman !!??
> > To: "Srinath Vedagarbha" <svedagarbha at gmail.com>
> > Cc: "agnimile at gmail.com" <agnimile at gmail.com>
> >
> > Unless there is Sukthi before, and Rajatha has been known earlier, no
> projection of Rajatha on Sukthi is possible.  This Sukthi is Adhishtana
> while the Rajatha seen earlier is Pradhana.  Both these are similar to each
> other.  These two are essential and sine qua non to have the illusory
> projection of Rajatha over Sukthi.  Similarly, to have illusory projection
> of Jagat, two more Jagats are necessary.  One to serve as Adhishtana and
> the other to serve as Pradhana, that are Real.  If so, then the very
> purpose of envisaging the illusory projection of the world is defeated.
> This results in a situation whereby Adwaitins would be accepting TWO REAL
> WORLDs in their illogical anxiety to deny one real world.
> >
> > Sriman Jaya Tirtha makes fun of the illogic of Adwaithis as follows in
> his Teeka for Srimad Acharya's Vishnutatwa Vinirnaya - Pinyakayachanartham
> Gathasya Pishachasya Swarithailadhana Prathigyavath Adhikaha - Aapatath.
> >
> > Regards
> > Shiv
> >
> > PS:  No point in debating the logically challenged.  Most of them do not
> have the logical ability beyond than that of a 7th or 8th grader middle
> school kids.  They Will resort to circular logic, time and time again.
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