[Advaita-l] Shankara and DrishTi-SrishTi vAda - eka jeeva vaada

[kuntimaddi sadananda]

Chandramouliji - PraNAms

Thanks for the url reference.

Hari Om!
Sadananda

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 5/7/16, H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Shankara and DrishTi-SrishTi vAda - eka jeeva vaada
 To: "Venkatraghavan S" <agnimile at gmail.com>, "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>, "kuntimaddi Sadananda" <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
 Date: Saturday, May 7, 2016, 8:11 AM
 
 The talks
 can be downloaded from following link
 << https://www.mediafire.com/folder/7cgw5m9kew41j/Vichara_sagaram
 >>
 I presume the
 link is still active.
 Regards
 On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 5:33
 PM, H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
 wrote:
 For those interested further on the subject of
 Drishti Srishti vAda,  Sri Paramarthananda Swamiji has
 covered it exhaustively and exclusively in talks nos 72 to
 74 on Vichara Sagara.
 For
 information.
 Regards
 On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 5:06
 PM, Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
 wrote:
 Namaste
 Sadaji,
 
 Thank you so much for sharing your conversation with
 Swamiji. I believe DSV
 
 does imply eka jIva vAda. However what that eka jIva is, is
 the crux here.
 
 
 
 My understanding of this vAda is that it is the one kAraNa
 sharIra that
 
 "creates" the world as it were. It is not what the
 vjnAna vAdi considers as
 
 the mind that is the jagat kartA.
 
 
 
 However, the appearance of several jIvAs  is also a product
 of that one
 
 kAraNa sharIra only. Hence, my understanding is that it is
 that kAraNa
 
 sharIra limited chaitanyam that is the eka jIva in Drishti
 Srishti vAda.
 
 
 
 I remember Swamiji saying this (that it is the kAraNa
 sharIra that is the
 
 srishti kartA, not the mind) when introducing drishti
 srishti in
 
 Vicharasagara.
 
 
 
 Regards,
 
 Venkatraghavan
 
 On 7 May 2016 11:58 a.m., "kuntimaddi sadananda"
 <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
 
 wrote:
 
 
 
 > PraNAms
 
 >
 
 > The discussion is shifting from DSV - SDV to Ekajeeva
 vaada vs aneka jeeva
 
 > vaada, and this topic was discussed by Shree Subbuji in
 the past. At that
 
 > time I had some discussions with Swami
 Paramarthanandaji on this topic. I
 
 > am re-posting my understanding based on that discussion
 with Swamiji.
 
 >
 
 > Related to the Ekajeeva vaaada vs aneka jeeva vaada - I
 think Shree
 
 > Bhaskarji is right, this time!
 
 >
 
 > Here is my understanding:
 
 >
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 
 >
 
 > Eka jiiva vaada
 
 >
 
 > First – an acknowledgement – this current writing
 is prompted by the posts
 
 > on creation and cognition by local tiny jiiva based on
 Bhagavatam (Uddhava
 
 > Geeta) sloka, with many indirect supportive teachings
 by Shree Subbuji. .
 
 > Yesterday, I had a chance to discuss this issue with
 Shree Swami
 
 > Paramarthanandaji about the jest of the eka-jiiva
 vaada. Since Swamiji is
 
 > not a member of any list, I would paraphrase this
 write-up as my
 
 > understanding of what Swamiji discussed. Needless to
 say, that it is left
 
 > to the reader to accept or reject the statements.
 
 > There was a consideration that creation involves only
 one jiiva, the
 
 > subject and the other entities constituting the world
 forming the objects
 
 > of his cognition. Ignorance of that jiiva involves
 parichchinnatvam or
 
 > notion of limitation that I am only this body, mind and
 intellect, while
 
 > the rest of the creation constitutes objects of his
 cognition. As usual,
 
 > samsaara or suffering comes by giving absolute reality
 to the cognized
 
 > world of plurality. Teaching to that jiiva is that
 whatever that is
 
 > cognized is not really real but mithyaa; since whatever
 cognized is inert
 
 > and there cannot be any real inert entities since
 consciousness is infinite
 
 > – prajnaanam brahma.
 
 >
 
 > Here we need to recognize three aspects that are
 involved in this model;
 
 > a) creation of plurality b) cognition of that plurality
 by senses c)
 
 > teaching to that jiiva that any cognized entity is not
 real. Realization,
 
 > as usual, involves recognition that I am Brahman, and
 anything else is
 
 > naama rupa mithyaa, and I am the substratum even for
 the mithyaa world of
 
 > plurality.
 
 >
 
 > There are several concerns and questions that arise
 from this model. Some
 
 > of them, were discussed in the past. These include a)
 jiiva creating the
 
 > world of plurality and then cognizing what he has
 created, and assuming
 
 > that the world of plurality that is cognized in real.
 To that jiiva there
 
 > is a teaching that it is not real but mithyaa.
 
 >
 
 > 1) First concern that comes up is if he is the creator
 and then cognizing
 
 > the creation, the teaching does not differ from
 vijnaana vaada of Buddhism.
 
 >
 
 > 2) Second concern is if he is the creator of the whole
 universe, he must
 
 > be sarva jnana or all knower, since creation requires
 the whole knowledge
 
 > of creation. He has to create from himself – that is
 he has to be abhinna
 
 > nimitta upaadana kaaraNa of the universe – that is
 both material and
 
 > intelligent cause for the universe. If so he is taking
 the role of Iswara
 
 > of that creation while being a local tiny jiiva.
 
 >
 
 > 3) Being the material cause also, he is the
 adhiShTaanam of the universe
 
 > too – here we are not referring to sat chit ananda
 swaruupa aatma but eka
 
 > jiiva of that creation since in this model he is the
 creator.
 
 >
 
 > 4) Another concern is creation should take place after
 he became a tiny
 
 > jiiva since the model involves the creation and
 cognition by the tiny jiiva
 
 > who has to be pre-existing before creation starts.
 
 >
 
 > 5) The item 4 leads to anyonya aashraya dosha or mutual
 dependency, like A
 
 > depends on B and B depends of A – This is because the
 jiiva has to be
 
 > created first for him to create the rest that includes
 in BMI which is part
 
 > of cognized world. Jiiva hood itself is due to
 identification with upAdhis,
 
 > BMI, as I am this. Thus he creates himself to create
 the rest including his
 
 > BMI for him to cognize.
 
 >
 
 > 6) He must have become ignorant after he created the
 universe, that makes
 
 > the ignorance to have beginning. Knowledgeable person
 cannot become
 
 > ignorant. If he becomes, then there is no question of
 moksha for him since
 
 > he can always become ignorant even after gaining
 knowledge. It is an
 
 > eternal struggle.
 
 >
 
 > 7) Next important concern is who the teacher for this
 single jiiva is.
 
 > Non-jiiva cannot teach and there is no other jiiva,
 even for him to realize
 
 > and then teach.
 
 >
 
 > I recognize some of the concerns are interdependent but
 I am only
 
 > highlighting them to recognize the problems that one
 encounters. The basic
 
 > problem is statement that he creates and then
 cognizes.
 
 >
 
 > Because of the limited time encounter, Swamiji answered
 briefly my
 
 > concerns grasping the essence of them. He said in the
 deep sleep state
 
 > there is only kaaraNa shariira which is essentially
 ignorance of all
 
 > duality as we discussed in the series – who slept
 well?. The ignorance
 
 > being undifferentiated, since there is no duality, the
 ignorance at both
 
 > individual level and collective level is one homogenous
 ignorance. From the
 
 > collective point it is called maayaa, which is nothing
 but parameswara
 
 > Shakti. Hence in Madukya aagama prakarana the kaaraNa
 state is also defined
 
 > from the macro scale as Iswara. Creation is by that
 Iswara and not by the
 
 > local mind of the jiiva, even in the eka jiiva vaada
 – the reason, he said,
 
 > is that even the local mind has to be created. We are
 back to the original
 
 > theory that creation is not by the local jiiva but by
 Iswara who is
 
 > sarvajna and sarva Shaktimaan.
 
 >
 
 > Eka jiiva comes from the point that there is only one
 subject from his
 
 > perspective and everything he cognizes is object of his
 perception. The
 
 > teaching he receives is also via his sense perception
 and his cognition and
 
 > therefore objectifiable entity. To the question that
 who is the teacher
 
 > then, he just smiled and says your guess is as good as
 mine. He
 
 > categorically denied that it is not that local jiiva
 creates and then
 
 > cognizes since the cognitive instruments need to be
 created too. He agreed
 
 > that if we accept creation and then cognition by that
 jiiva, then it will
 
 > not be different from vijnana vaada of Buddhism.
 
 >
 
 > I left him since there were others in line seeking his
 attention.
 
 > .
 
 > With prostrations to Shree Swamiji for educating me on
 this topic.
 
 >
 
 > Hari Om!
 
 > Sadananda
 
 >
 
 >
 
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