[Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: Re: Re: The five pUrva pakshis of vaitathya prakaraNa

[V Subrahmanian]

On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 9:55 PM, Ravi Kiran via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 5:26 PM, Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > Namaste Sri Chandramouliji,
> >
> > The reason the presence of turIya is not highlighted in the email is
> > because that is not the focus of what is being discussed - which is
> whether
> > an objective assessment of reality of the world can be made when being a
> > part of the world. Despite being present, turIya is not part of the
> world -
> > mANDUkya says he is prapanchopashamam.
> >
> > We cannot take either the waker's assessment or the dreamer's assessment
> > of reality as truth, because each of them associate themselves with the
> > instruments of experience, which are very much part of the world that
> they
> > are assessing.
> >
>
>
>
> Even though prAjnan being sarvesvaraḥ, sarvajna, sarvontaryAmi, sarvasya
> yonih, prajnAna ghana...
>

This being the seed, cause, of the waking/dream samsāra has been explicitly
stated by Shankara to be the Brahman of a lower order, for, Shankara
reasons, in this Mandukya bhashya itself, if jīva-s were to merge in the
Supreme Nirguṇa Brahman, during deep sleep and pralaya, there will be no
way they can emerge after these two states, for the Veda says: Upon
reaching That, there is no return. So, Shankara says that the Brahman that
the jīva-s obtain during sleep and pralaya is necessarily sa-beeja
brahman.  Certainly such an Īśvara (sa-beeja Brahman) is within the realm
of māyā, creation, and therefore not the Supreme.  Hence alone the Turiya
is differentiated even from Ishvara.

regards
vs


> yet, prAjnan is limited to sushupti avastha, as  there is no experience of
> world in sushupti (ekibhutah), neither assessing
> of waker's or dreamer's world from prAjnan, though it is considered as the
> origin (or doorway leading to) for visva and taijasa (sarvasya yonih,
> cetomukha)..
>
>
>
> On the other hand the veda has an extraordinary vision of the world, which
> > is not vitiated by this particular limitation. Therefore, the veda gives
> us
> > an objective presentation of reality from the standpoint of turIya which
> we
> > should try to understand.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Venkatraghavan
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 11:13 AM, H S Chandramouli <
> > hschandramouli at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Namste Sri Venkatraghavan Ji,
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Reg  << In order to objectively describe something, the one describing
> > >> that thing
> > >> has to be outside it. That is why turIya, who is not associated with
> > >> either
> > >> the jAgrat, svapna or kAraNa prapanchas and sharIras can objectify
> them,
> > >> and because he is able to do so, they are all mithyA. दृश्यत्वात्
> > >> मिथ्यात्वं. >>,
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Well not exactly. I think you have not broughtout in your writeup
> that
> > >> Turiya is “ present “  as the unchanging “ observer “ in and through
> all
> > >> the three states of waking,dream and deep sleep states.  Infact in
> this
> > >> अवस्धात्रयप्रक्रिया (avasdhAtrayaprakriyA) he can be known only
> through
> > >> this aspect  एकात्मप्रत्ययसारः (ekAtmapratyayasAraH) of Mandukya.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Just thought I would bring it to your notice.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Regards
> > >>
> > >
> > >
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