[Advaita-l] Shruti prAmANya and jnAna

[Venkatraghavan S]

Namaste Raghav ji,
Thanks for that very clear email.

"In my present state of understanding, that svataHprAmAnyam of
shabdapramANa is sufficient for akhanDAkAra vRtti in the case of the
uttamAdhikArI, appears reasonable."

I agree - this was pretty much the sum of my argument earlier. I however,
did not introduce the condition of adhikAri bheda because the focus of the
argument was on the vastu tantratva of jnAna.

Regards,
Venkatraghavan

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 4:32 PM, Raghav Kumar Dwivedula <
raghavkumar00 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Namaste Venkatraghavan ji
>
> On 04-Oct-2016 7:08 pm, "Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l" <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
> > Namaste Praveenji,
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 1:42 PM, Praveen R. Bhat <bhatpraveen at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > > If the pramAta, pramANa and prameya, are appropriately aligned,
> knowledge
> > >> is automatically generated. Now, the pramAta may refuse to accept the
> > >> generated knowledge as pramA, or take efforts to preserve the
> knowledge
> > >> generated; however, the capacity of the pramANa to generate the jnAna
> > >> vritti is a given.
> > >>
> > >
> > > The answer, IMO, lies in the definition of pramAtR/ प्रमाता, else ज्ञान
> > > would arise even without साधनचातुष्टयसम्पत्ति। One of the
> qualifications is
> > > श्रद्धा, which although defined by तत्त्वबोध as गुरुवेदान्तवाक्येषु
> > > विश्वासः, its not just a belief. It has to grow into प्रामाण्यबुद्धि।
> For
> > > श्रवण to take place, there has to be तात्पर्यनिर्णय। Without that,
> ज्ञान
> > > cannot arise.
> > >
> > > Yes, unless the pramAta has the qualifications for knowledge, pramA
> will
> > not arise - some jnAna (even bhrama may arise). shruti prAmANya-buddhi
> must
> > also definitely be there. However,  even that prAmANya-buddhi is based on
> > certain basic axioms that need to be accepted for that prAmANya-buddhi to
> > arise. And I believe it is to cultivate a belief in these axioms that
> > shraddhA is talked about.
> >
> > And even if some form of ज्ञानवृत्ति is formed, it is not अखण्ड। Further,
> > > as you say the person may reject it perhaps as भ्रम। At most it may
> become
> > > some kind of impression for स्मृति।
> > >
> > > I have to think about why you say the jnAna vritti is not akhaNda. Will
> > mull over it.
> >
> It may be of interest that the alignment or conformity of the vRtti
> generated in the mind when mahAvAkya is heard (with prAmAnya buddhi),
> vis-a-vis the shruti's (Guru's) true intention, can vary between
> 1. Virochana's bhrama GYAna (although he had prAmAnya buddhi in the
> preceptor ).
> 2.  injunction to meditate upAsitavyam -vRtti (the mImAmsaka-s had
> prAmANya buddhi  in veda but read into the mahAvAkya an injunction to
> meditate 'ahambrahmAsmi iti upAsIta' )
> 3. the true import of the mahAvAkya viz., grasped by akhanDAkAra vRtti.
>
> Well maybe Virochana was not exactly taught the mahAvAkya, but i think you
> get the general idea.
>
> The degree of antahkaraNashuddhi, if its of a high order, the resistance
> to owning up that 'aham brahmAsmi' is almost absent.
>
> Why should the akhanDAkAra vRtti not arise? Because the shruti's true
> intention is aikyArtha alone. So there is no pramANa doSha.  That leaves
> only the pramatR antaHkaraNa as having the obstacles to artha sphuraNa. We
> can ask this question and work backwards and see that resistive obstacles
> like arthasya asambhAvanA will be not strongly felt if there is a shuddha
> antaHkaraNa which is not strongly identified with the vyaShTi upAdhi. (As
> in, how can i, a humbLe simbLe person, be brahman?!)
>
> And if there is no pre-existing theological religious baggage in the mind
> then ideas such as 'shruti says something else somewhere else or some Apta
> has said something theological which i  believe about God' etc  will also
> not to be there in a fresh mind and so shrutyanekatA will not be there,
> temporarily at least. And same goes for dehAtmavAsana and other viparyayas.
>
> I agree that a person need not know all about the process of knowledge and
> how phalavyApti is not there etc., to get the appropriate vRtti.
>
> In sum, if a kSheeNakalmaSha student is exposed to mahAvAkya, there are no
> reasons why the akhaNDAkAra vRtti can't arise. Whether the pramA generated
> by the vRtti will survive the further experiences and vicAra based on other
> pramANa-s is another question. Perhaps as Sri LalitAlAlitaH ji (nearly)
> quoted, the one who respects his experience will not fall. (I have slightly
> modified it).
>
> Actually this entire aspect was brought up by him when he said
> svataHprAmANyam will have to be backed up by yukti etc.
>
> In my present state of understanding, that svataHprAmAnyam of
> shabdapramANa is sufficient for akhanDAkAra vRtti in the case of the
> uttamAdhikArI, appears reasonable. The yukti and further shravaNam etc is
> only required to protect the vRtti-janita pramA after it has arisen.
> Otherwise the one who does not respect his experience falls... seems likely.
>
> Om
> Raghav
>
>