[Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** All the three states are dream alone

[Venkatesh Murthy]

Namaste

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 11:04 PM, Aditya Kumar <kumaraditya22 at yahoo.com>
wrote:

> It's not about liking or preferring one prakriya over another. DSV/EJV
> reduces Advaita to solipsism but SDV/NJV does not. DSV/EJV makes multiple
> assumptions which are baseless. If we say that in vyavaharika all views are
> valid as long as it does not go against the ultimate conclusion of Advaita,
> can we accept that there is no primal ignorance and that Avidya is simply
> adhyasa?
>

If you are capable of understanding Avidya is not there at all you can
follow that Prakriya. No problem. There will be Adhikari Bheda according to
capacity. Once Sankaracharya and Madhvacharya were walking together and
they became very thirsty. They came to a village but only liquor was
available but no water. They both drank that liquor only and quenched the
thirst and proceeded. After walking some distance they became very thirsty
again. They came to a village. In that village only red hot melted iron was
available. Sankaracharya drank it but Madhvacharya could not drink it. A
Parivrajaka Sanyasi will not make any difference between nice things to
drink and bad things to drink. He must have that capacity.

>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Venkatesh Murthy <vmurthy36 at gmail.com>
> *To:* Aditya Kumar <kumaraditya22 at yahoo.com>; A discussion group for
> Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 29 August 2017 10:06 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** All the three states are dream
> alone
>
> Namaste
>
> SDV, DSV, EJV, NJV and so on are all Prakriyas. They are not Paramarthika.
> They are theories only.  If you don't like one Prakriya you can go to
> another Prakriya and follow it. No problem. But you cannot say one is wrong
> and another one is correct. Because in the end all are recognizing
> Adviteeya Brahma only as Paramartha. Sureshwara is also saying same thing.
> Gaudapada also has said the quarrel like Dvaitis quarrel cannot be there in
> Advaita because there cannot be quarrel about Mithya things like Jagat
> and Srushti. If they are real there can be quarrel. Otherwise it is useless
> to quarrel.
>
> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 11:48 PM, Aditya Kumar via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> Basically In waking state, there is a role for indriyas and their
> respective objects. We don't see the world by nose or hear sounds by
> tongue. The fact that there is no duality in sushupti in itself cannot
> establish the unreality of the world. For that matter, it cannot even
> establish non-duality. If there is manifestation of the world, there is
> unmanifest state as well. Just as manifestation is non-eternal, even
> unmanifest state is equally non-eternal. Shankara says the very fact that
> objects exist apart from the one who perceives it establishes the objective
> nature of the world. If the objects are only subjective, then why does
> these subjective ideas appear as 'external' objects in the first place?
> If we say world is unreal like illusions (mirage etc) then the world may
> be perceived even after the attainment of Moksha. Because even after we
> know that mirage is just an illusion, we continue to perceive it. There is
> no premise to reduce the world to illusions by any stretch of logic because
> even if we admit the world to be objective, it need not be real. If mere
> logic could establish unreality of the world and also establish
> non-duality, then what is the role/status of Shruti pramana?
>
>       From: Bhaskar YR via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita- vedanta.org
> <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>>
>  To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-
> vedanta.org <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>>
> Cc: Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com>
>  Sent: Monday, 28 August 2017 2:57 PM
>  Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** All the three states are dream
> alone
>
> praNAms Sri Jaykumar prabhuji
> Hare Krishna
>
> Though waking state is also equivalent to dream in the sense the the jeeva
> is ignorant of the Self and the jeeva is perceiving the non-existance, can
> we (who are in spiritual pursuit )  justify of giving a bit more importance
> to the waking state because of the following reasons :
>
> 1.      Let alone ignorant ones, even wise people give more importance to
> waking state and re-collect, share and talk about waking state experiences
> more than dreams and sleep.
>
> 2.      Wisdom or Self knowledge takes place only during waking state.
>
> 3.      In the vyavakarika time-scale, waking state is longer than sleep
> and dream states
>
> 4.      Only in waking state we vaguely remember dreams and recollect about
> sleep and dream experiences.
>
> 5.      Variety with Continuity like experience appears only in waking
> state .
>
>  Therefore, doesn't waking states enjoys an edge in importance more than
> the other two statesin 'vyavakarika' plane of reality?
>
> >  Your all other points can equally be treated by bringing in the dream
> state 'reality'. (1) In dream also we collect some experiences, share and
> talk about some other state / event etc.  (3) But when you are experiencing
> the dream it appears it is long lasting one...sometimes we experience the
> life from bAlya to vAridikya in a single dream itself..time scale is quite
> relative we cannot compare dream time scale with that of waking.  Because
> the socalled time scale restricted to that state only.  Same way your
> points (4) and (5) also be answered.  But, yes, your (2) point is quite
> valid when it comes to sAdhana.  Nobody of us , who are vehemently trying
> to prove both states are one and the same, dare to say since waking and
> dream are one and the same (so says mAndUkya shruti also !!) , I will do my
> sAdhana in dream not in waking, because in waking I have some other
> priorities to attend :-) And shAstra also says for the dream karma there is
> no karma phala  since it is mere saMskAra vAsana of the waking world.
> stUla shareera vyApAra ( the transaction of gross body) is absent in dream
> but from the point of view of manas and its transaction there is no
> difference between jAgrat and svapna.  But in waking state the Ishwara
> srushti will bring curtains to manOvyApAra.  We cannot forget ourselves by
> thinking something in waking state in the middle of the traffic road,
> vehicle horns, abuses of fellow travelers would bring back us to the
> waking state, hitting the wall, pillar while walking thinking something
> would bring us back to 'sense'  :-) More importantly pApa and puNya that we
> do in the svapna prapancha will not bring us the resultant phala since it
> is mere 'seeing' not 'doing'...drushtaiva na krutvA ..puNyancha puNya
> phalaM pApaN cha pApa phalaM.  So, to do the sAdhana in a meaningful way,
> we need the waking state, wherein Ishwara srushti is available for us to
> experience our karma phala.
>
> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
> bhaskar
>
>
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> --
> Regards
>
> -Venkatesh
>
>
>


-- 
Regards

-Venkatesh