[Advaita-l] A question on PariNAma and vivarta

[kuntimaddi sadananda]

Chandramouliji - PraNAms
Thanks for the input. I must say I still do not agree with you assessment of gold appearing as ornaments come under parinaama in stead of vivarta.
The milk transforming into curds is definitely parinaama - In science we call this as irreversible transformation, a destructive transformation. That does not come under the same category of gold appearing as ornaments - where vaachaarambhanam vikaara naama dheyam - a transformation-less transformation. 

Shree Vidyaranya's discussion pertains to vyaavahaarika only in terms of upaadaana kaaranam. 

Rope/snake example again praatibhaasika and not relevant - I do not think it is vivarta also since rope has not undergone any apparent transformation. It forms nirupaadika adhyaasa where as the discussion here pertains to upaadaana kaaranam, as you have studied the chapter. 

I am not sure how the vaachaarambhanam statements were accounted in the Chandogya  by Acharyas.
Hari Om!Sadananda

      From: H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
 To: Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com>; A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> 
Cc: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
 Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2017 3:11 PM
 Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] A question on PariNAma and vivarta
   
I may perhaps add for clarity that gold bar also isanother manifest form of gold, just as chain/bangle/ring are. Thetransformation is not from bar to ornament, but from one manifest form (bar) ofunmanifest gold  into another manifestform (chain/bangle/ring) of unmanifest gold.  Regards
On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 2:58 PM, H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com> wrote:

Namaste Sri Sadananda Ji,    I had pointed out earlier also in response to one of yourposts that transformation in respect of gold ornaments is one of parinama whilethat in case of respect of rope-serpent is one of vivarta. But you did notagree and so I left it at that. Now that the question has been posed by youagain, I reiterate my earlier position.  स्वरूपपरित्यागेन रूपान्तरापत्तिः परिणामः (svarUpaparityAgenarUpAntarApattiH pariNAmaH ) Parinama is transformation which involves change ofswarupa.  स्वरूप अपरित्यागेन रूपान्तरापत्तिः विवर्तः (svarUpaaparityAgena rUpAntarApattiH vivartaH)  Vivarta is transformation without involving  change of swarupa.  In the case of gold and ornaments, unmaniest gold (goldin its kArana swarupa) undergoes transformation into various manifest forms aschain, ring, bangle etc (kArya swarupa). When it manifests as chain/bangle/ringetc gold is no longer available in its unmanifest form. Hence it is anillustration for parinama.Transformation is of gold only and not ofchain/bangle/ring.   There is no difference in ontological status asbetween gold and ornaments. In the case of rope-serpent, rope continues to exist inits own swarupa as rope even as it appears as transformed to rope-serpent.Hence it is an illustration for vivarta. There is a difference in ontologicalstatus as between rope and rope-serpent. Rope is vyAvahArika while rope-serpentis prAtibhAsika.   Regards