[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Works of Sri Vidyashankara
Sunil Bhattacharjya
sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com
Wed Jan 4 13:27:48 CST 2017
Dear friends,
Mahabharata did say that the Bhagavad gita had 745 verses and Lord Krishna was attributed 620 verses etc. I have never changed my statement and only given the detail about the number of verses attributed to Lord Krishna in the second mail.
As regards the Critical edition of the Mahabharata I have written in the past many times that the chief editor of the critical edition, Dr. Sukhtankar, made the decision that only those verses which were common in all versions will be included in the critical edition. The rest of the verses will be added as extra. But unfortunately for him (Dr. Sukhtankar), when he gave the last four-lectures series of talk on the Mahabharata, in the Asiatic Siciety in Bombay (Mumbai), he could deliver the first three and expired in the morning of the fourth day, when the last lecture was to be delivered. The editor of the series of these lectures included the Dr. Sukhtankar's note of the fourth lecture to be delivered and added the preface to the booklet, in which the all the details of the lectures were included. . The editor mentioned in the preface, that Dr. Sukhtankara negated all that he was upholding during the making of the critical edition that the the verses not commonly found were not authentic.
It appears to me that the shock was too much on Dr, Sukhtankar at the late realization of his folly as he quoted in the lecture, mostly the verses which he earlier thought to be not genuine, and the poor man had a heart attack in the morning, he was to deliver the last lecture.
Now, my request to moderatorji :
I do not want to continue on this topic with Kaul. If it is personal mail he can write to my personal mail. If he writes to the group let him address his mails to all the members. . But if Mr. kaul makes false accuasations as he had several times in the past, please do not stop me from replying and exposing him. THis is my request
Regards,
Sunil KB
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 1/4/17, A K Kaul jyotirved at gmail.com [advaitin] <advaitin at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] [advaitin] Works of Sri Vidyashankara
To: "advaitin at yahoogroups.com" <advaitin at yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "Venkatraghavan S" <agnimile at gmail.com>, "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>, svidyasankar at gmail.com
Date: Wednesday, January 4, 2017, 7:58 AM
Shri
Sunil Bhattacharjyaji, Jai Shri
Ram!Your
earlier statement was QuoteThe Bhagavadgitabhashya does not have 745
verses, even though the Gita Press edition of the
Mahabharata clearly shows that the Bhagavad Gita had 745
verses.UnquoteNow you have changed it to "The
Mahabharata as published by the Gita Press does contain the
statement that the Bhagavad Gita as originally composed was
of 745 verses and goes on the say it has 620 verses
attributed to Lord Krishna".
I have given you all the details as to how
all the editions of Bhagvadgita---including the one
enshrined in the Mahabharata itself published by Gita Press ---- have only 700 shlokas.
The five shlokas in the
Mahabharata in Bhishma parva---Adyaya 43---attributed to
Vaishampayana that Bhgwan Krishna had said 620 verses and so
on thus making the total 745 shlokas fly in the very face of
the Mahabharata itself, since it contains only 700
shlokas!The editors of the Gita Press edition have
indicated in the footnote of Adyaya 43 of Bhishma Parva that
these five shlokas claiming the Gita to be having 745
shlokas are not to be found in most of the manuscripts.
For that matter, the BORI
edition of the Mahabharata also does not contain these
shlokas supposed to proclaim that the Gita had 745
shloks!Above all, I have given you all the proofs
that the Gyaneshwari in Marathai, that has been published
from Marathi manuscripts of Shaka 1337 i.e. about 1259 AD
has only 701 shlokas. It does not talk about 745 shlokas
at all!That also confirms that these five shlokas
claiming that the Gita had 745 shlokas are later
interpolations in the Mahabharata!I have also checked the
Mahaharata--Nilakantha Bhashya. That also contains the
Gita of 700 shlokas and not 745 shlokas! Though the five
shlokas of the claim that the Gita has 745 shlokas do appear
in the 43rd Adyaya of Nilakantha Bhashya also, but this is
what Nilakantha has said in his commentary
Thus you are trying to base your arguments
on some "facts" which are in fact worse than
fiction!On top of it, you are making insinuations
with comments like, "But if any one before Sri
Ramanujacharya wrote the advaitic bhashya on the
Bhagavadgita, then the question as to why the 45 verses
were omitted still
stands"!They
were "omitted" for the simple reason that the real
Gita of the Mahabhaata has only 700
shlokas!
Please
therefore avoid such speculations as they are highly
damaging to the Hindu ethos, especially to the spirit of the
advaitin forum of Aadi Shankara!
Jai Shri Ram!Avtar Krishen Kaul
On Tue,
Jan 3, 2017 at 3:21 AM, Sunil Bhattacharjya sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com
[advaitin] <advaitin at yahoogroups.com>
wrote:
Dear friends,
The Mahabharata as published by the GIta Press does contain
the statement that the Bhagavad Gita as originally composed
was of 745 verses and goes on the say it has 620 verses
attributed to Lord Krishna. Mr. Kaul has not read the
Mahabharata. well. He is used to telling numerous lies and
he thinks that everybody lies.
Bhaskara wrote a bhashya without those missing verses, as
whatever he found difficult to handle he left them
out. The refutation of that by Shankara (not Adi
Shanaka) obviously got limited to that vulgate version. That
is why also the Gita press incorporated the commonly
available vulgate version.
Those who do not want to read the original Bhagavad Gita of
745 verses, may very well forget about that. Lord Krishna
advises towards the end of the Bhaagavad gita not to talk
about the Bhagavad Gita to the unbelievers.
Regards,
SKB
------------------------------ --------------
On Mon, 1/2/17, A K Kaul jyotirved at gmail.com
[advaitin] <advaitin at yahoogroups.com>
wrote:
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] [advaitin] Works of Sri
Vidyashankara
To: "advaitin at yahoogroups.com"
<advaitin at yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "Venkatraghavan S" <agnimile at gmail.com>,
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedant
a.org
Date: Monday, January 2, 2017, 2:39 AM
Shri
Sunil Bhattacharjyaji,Jai Shri
Ram!In your
response to Shri Venkataraghavan of
"Advaita-l"
lists (appended below), you have saidQuoteTthe
Bhagavadgitabhashya does not have 745 verses, even
though the Gita press
edition of the Mahabharata clearly
shows that the
Bhagavad Gita had 745 verses.
UnquoteThat is a lie of the worst kind since the
Gita Press edition of the Mahabharata also contains the
Gita
of only 700 (not even 701) shlokas, not to speak of 745
verses!.It has exactly the same number of shlokas as
detailed by me in my mail of December 31, 2016, and I
quoteQuoteFollowing is
the number of shlokas in each Adhyaya of the
Gyaneshwari-Gita vis-v-vis the Gita of Gita Press as well
as
the commentary of Aadi Shankara:I=47;
II=72; III=43; IV=42; V=29; VI=47; VII=30; VIII=28;
IX=34;
X=42; XI=55; XII=20; XIII=35 (as against 34 of Aadi
Shankara/Gita Press Gita); XIV=27; XV=20; XVI=24;
XVII=28;
XVIII=78.The
total of all these shlokas of Gyaneshwari--Marathi, comes
to
701 shlokas as against 700 shlokas.UnquoteThe Gita
of the Gita Press Mahabharata does not have even the
additional shloka of the thirteenth Adyaya of
Gyaneshwari-Marathi edition!Why do
you spin lies to prove your points which you can never
prove!You have
also yet to tell us as to how Prof. Narahari Achar has
"used modern astronomy " to show that Aadi
Shankara was born in 509 BCE. How long do we have to
wait
for those clarifications?Jai Shri
Ram!On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 4:22
AM, Sunil Bhattacharjya sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com
[advaitin] <advaitin at yahoogroups.com>
wrote:
Dear Vidyashankarji,
I think you have not known that my doubts about the
authorship of the Bhagavadgitabhashya by Adi Shankara,
arose
only after I came to know about Prof. Karmarkar's
analysis.
It looks as if due to prejudice many have not cared to
read
the paper of Karmarkar. So there is no case of
force-fitting, and it was only the open way of
examining
new
information.
Good that now I find that the general opinion is that
Sri
Vidyashankar had not written any text. But there must
be
some reason why both the Kudali Sringeri and the
Sringeri
mathas have the grand Vidyashankar temples in their
premises, but similar honour to the other
post-AdiShankara
pontiffs are miising.
Regarding Nava Shankara or Abhinava Shankara, it was
Shri
Pathak who got the three page document on that
according
to
which this Nava Shankara was born in 788 CE. Shri
Pathak
published a paper on that. It is interesting to see
that
the
Sringeri matha also claimed the date of their first
mathadhipati from that time. This probably gave an
impression to some scholars like Udaivir Shastri that
the
Sringeri math was established by this Abhinava
Shankara.
Abhinava Shankara, for your kind information is one of
the
pontiffs of the Kanchi Kamakoti matha.
As regards Shri Niranjan Saha's paper I wrote back
to
him in
private as he asked for a review of his paper. I am
yet
to
hear from Shri Saha.
I don't condemn the mathas other than the Sringeri
matha,
and I also look with an open mind at what others are
saying,
even if they differ from the opinion of the Sringeri,
for
which I have great respect. I wish I belonged to the
inner
circle of the Shringeri matha, so that I could have
helped
the matha to undo the wrongs the historians had done
to
that
matha.
Regards,
Sunil KB
------------------------------ --------------
On Sun, 1/1/17, Vidyasankar Sundaresan <svidyasankar at gmail.com>
wrote:
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] [advaitin] Works of Sri
Vidyashankara
To: "Sunil Bhattacharjya" <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com
>
Cc: "A discussion group for Advaita
Vedanta"
<advaita-l at lists.advaita-
vedanta.org>,
"Venkatraghavan S" <agnimile at gmail.com>
Date: Sunday, January 1, 2017, 9:54 AM
Dear
Sunilji,
In general, if you want to answer questions of
textual and historical import, you have to have a
more
solid
basis first to ask questions, not just some doubts
and
hunches. Secondly, you should try not to force fit
data
to
preconceived conclusions.
It looks like you are determined, somehow or
the other, to come up with a different author for
the
gItAbhAshya than Adi Sankara. So, in your
estimation,
it
must be anybody else, either an entirely mythical
and
non-historical abhinava Sankara or the historical
vidyASankara who has traditionally not been known
to
have
written any texts at all.
Our list member, Niranjan Saha, has already
shared with you, by private email, a very recent
paper
surveying the academic scholarly output regarding
the
authorship of the gItAbhAshya. Please read it with
some
care.
I don't understand why you would throw out
both the tradition that says that this bhAshya is
by
Adi
Sankara and also the bulk of the modern scholarship
that
concludes that this traditional attribution is
right.
Instead, you are basing your argument upon a
solitary
paper
that is now quite outdated, along with a highly
speculative
attempt at reconstructing history. The entire
exercise
is
very strange indeed!
Best regards,
Vidyasankar
On Jan 1, 2017 2:29 AM,
"Sunil Bhattacharjya via Advaita-l"
<advaita-l at lists.advaita-
vedanta.org>
wrote:
Namaste
Venkataraghavanji,
Thank you for your mail. may I request you kindly
to
send
me
a photocopy of T.K. Gopalaswamy Aiyengar's
paper
titled "BhAskara on the
Gita" presented at the GIta SamIkshA conference
held
in
Tirupati on March, 1970.
Would you think that Abhinava Shankara, another
very
famous
avatara of Adi Shankaracharya, could have written
the
Bhagavadgita bhashya, if and when all evidences
confirm
that a fresh bhashya on the Bhagavadhita was
needed
to
be
written by Sri Vidyashankara to refute Sri
Ramabujacharya's Bhagavadgitabjashya, as one
advaitic
bhashya was already therein Sri
ramanujacharya's
time.
This will be satisfy the objection that language
style
of
the Bhagavadgitabhshya was different for Adi
Shankara's
other bhashyas.
Tthe Bhagavadgitabhashya does not have 745 verses,
even
though the Gita press edition of the Mahabharata
clearly
shows that the Bhagavad Gita had 745 verses. One
possibility
is that Sri Vidyashankara had just to refute only
the
version with 700 verses on which Sri Ramanujacharya
wrote
his bhashya. But if any one before Sri
Ramanujacharya
wrote the advaitic bhashya on the Bhagavadgita,
then
the
question as to why the 45 verses were omitted still
stands,
Regards,
Sunil KB
--------------------------- --- --------------
On Sat, 12/31/16, Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l
<advaita-l at lists.advaita-
vedanta.org> wrote:
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] [advaitin] Works of Sri
Vidyashankara
To: "A discussion group for Advaita
Vedanta"
<advaita-l at lists.advaita-
vedanta.org>
Date: Saturday, December 31, 2016, 10:06 AM
Namaste,
One thing we can use to determine objectively
if Shankara bhagavatpAda
wrote the gIta
bhAshya, or if it was a later advaitin in his
tradition,
is
to see if there is any evidence from
other commentators that are
chronologically
proximate to him.
It is
widely accepted that BhAskara, a bhedAbhedavadin,
who
is
said to have
lived around c. 800 AD
("BhAskara the VedAntin", Daniel
Ingalls),
is
a
close contemporary of Shankaracharya. BhAskara
quotes Shankara's brahma
sUtra bhAshya
quite extensively in his own bhAshya to this
prasthAna.
BhAskara, in turn, is quoted by VAcaspati
Mishra in BhAmati. Therefore, he
must have
lived between Shankara's and VAcaspati's
lifetimes.
Now turning to
the question if there are any references to
Shankara's
gIta
bhAshya in any of BhAskara's works.
Unfortunately, not too many surviving
works
of BhAskara are available to us. Thankfully,
there
are
some
fragments
available from his gIta bhAshya (9
chapters of his gIta bhAshya are
published
by the Benares Sanskrit University, edited by Dr.
Subhadropadhyaya, 1964).
In the few fragments of the BhAskara gIta
bhAshya available today, there is
one
interesting comment he makes when commenting on
sloka
2.21:
वेदाविनाशिनं
नित्यं य
एनमजमव्ययम्
।
कथं स पुरुषः
पार्थ कं घातयति
हन्ति
कम् ॥ २१ ॥
These are Shankara's words in his
commentary to the bhAshya:
हेत्वर्थस्य
च
अविक्रियत्वस्य
तुल्यत्वात्
*विदुषः
सर्वकर्मप्रतिषेध
एव
प्रकारणार्थः
अभिप्रेतो भगवता*
।
Turning to BhAskara, he
quotes Shankara in the bhAshya to the same verse:
अत्र क्लेशभीरव:
केचित् स्वमतं
भगवत्यारोप्य
वर्णयन्ति *विदुष:
सर्वकर्मप्रतिषेध
एव
प्रकरणार्थोSभिप्रेतो
भगवता* इति.
In commenting on this verse, BhAskara
criticises Shankara's bhAshya by
saying
that Shankaracharya is simply attributing his own
views
onto
Lord
Krishna when he says "in this
context, Krishna's view is that for the wise
person total renunciation of karma is
prescribed".
Its quite
clear here that BhAskara is quoting
Shankara's
gIta
bhAshya
verbatim. Given that BhAskara also
quotes Shankara in his Brahma sUtra
bhAshya,
we can conclude that the Shankara that wrote the
gIta
bhAshya must
have lived at the same time as
the Shankara that wrote the brahma sUtra
bhAshya. A reasonable simplification to make is
that it is indeed the same
person.
(The above references to
BhAskara's bhAshya and his quotation of
Shankara's
bhAshya are from T.K.
Gopalaswamy Aiyengar's paper titled
"BhAskara
on
the
Gita" presented at the GIta
SamIkshA conference held in Tirupati on March
1970. The proceedings of the conference have
been published by Sri
Venkateswara
University, Tirupati. It is available in
electronic
form
at
archive.org)
Regards,
Venkatraghavan
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#yiv1076630292 #yiv1076630292photos div label {
color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}
#yiv1076630292 #yiv1076630292reco-category {
font-size:77%;}
#yiv1076630292 #yiv1076630292reco-desc {
font-size:77%;}
#yiv1076630292 .yiv1076630292replbq {
margin:4px;}
#yiv1076630292 #yiv1076630292ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {
margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}
#yiv1076630292 #yiv1076630292ygrp-mlmsg {
font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;}
#yiv1076630292 #yiv1076630292ygrp-mlmsg table {
font-size:inherit;font:100%;}
#yiv1076630292 #yiv1076630292ygrp-mlmsg select,
#yiv1076630292 input, #yiv1076630292 textarea {
font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}
#yiv1076630292 #yiv1076630292ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv1076630292
code {
font:115% monospace;}
#yiv1076630292 #yiv1076630292ygrp-mlmsg * {
line-height:1.22em;}
#yiv1076630292 #yiv1076630292ygrp-mlmsg #yiv1076630292logo {
padding-bottom:10px;}
#yiv1076630292 #yiv1076630292ygrp-msg p a {
font-family:Verdana;}
#yiv1076630292 #yiv1076630292ygrp-msg
p#yiv1076630292attach-count span {
color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}
#yiv1076630292 #yiv1076630292ygrp-reco
#yiv1076630292reco-head {
color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}
#yiv1076630292 #yiv1076630292ygrp-reco {
margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}
#yiv1076630292 #yiv1076630292ygrp-sponsor #yiv1076630292ov
li a {
font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}
#yiv1076630292 #yiv1076630292ygrp-sponsor #yiv1076630292ov
li {
font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}
#yiv1076630292 #yiv1076630292ygrp-sponsor #yiv1076630292ov
ul {
margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}
#yiv1076630292 #yiv1076630292ygrp-text {
font-family:Georgia;}
#yiv1076630292 #yiv1076630292ygrp-text p {
margin:0 0 1em 0;}
#yiv1076630292 #yiv1076630292ygrp-text tt {
font-size:120%;}
#yiv1076630292 #yiv1076630292ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {
border-right:none !important;
}
#yiv1076630292
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