[Advaita-l] Tamas, physical darkness, is a positive object

[Ravi Kiran]

On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 7:40 AM, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 11:15 PM, Ravi Kiran <ravikiranm108 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 6:24 PM, V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Tamas, physical darkness, is a positive object
>>>
>>>
>>> श्रूयते । तत्र संशय्यते — किं ज्योतिःशब्दं *चक्षुर्विषयतमोपहं तेजः*, किं
>>> वा
>>> परं ब्रह्मेति ।
>>>
>>> Does the word 'jyotis' in the Chandogya passage 8.12.3 refer to the
>>> physical light that dispels darkness that envelops objects perceptible to
>>> the eye or the Supreme Brahman?
>>>
>>> From the usage  *चक्षुर्विषयतमोपहं*   it is clear that darkness is a
>>> positive entity that is also popularly understood as 'absence of light'
>>> and
>>> that it is dispelled by light.
>>
>>
>>
>> If darkness is a positive entity, how can light ( whose nature is to just
>> illumine, prakAsaka) dispel the darkness object ?
>>
>
> This is the question raised by those who are not comfortable with
> 'bhAvarupa ajnana': If ajnana is a positive entity how can jnana dispel it?
>

As there is mention in bhAshya, referring tamasa as tattva agrahana
(non-apprehension of Reality)


>
>
>> In that case, where will darkness go, when light shines ?
>>
>
> Since darkness is a manifestation of prakriti, it will go back to its
> source.
>
>>
>>
>>
>>> In any case that darkness is admitted by the
>>> Vedantin as an object that is grasped by the eye is what we understand
>>> from
>>> the usage.
>>
>>
>> //Sw. Gambhirananda translation, says:
>>
>> The doubt arises as to whether the word light refers to the "light
>> visible to the eye" and dispelling darkness, or to Supreme Brahman.//
>>
>
> The Anandagiri and Ratnaprabha commentaries interpret that part of the
> compound word as 'the darkness that envelops the objects perceptible to the
> eye such as a pot.'
>

Thanks


>
> regards
> vs
>
>>
>>
>>
>>> We do have the Upanishad itself admitting darkness, tamas, as a
>>> specific entity and not as an abhava. In the antaryami brahmanam 3.7.13
>>> is
>>> this mantra:
>>>
>>> यस्तमसि तिष्ठंस्तमसोऽन्तरो यं तमो न वेद यस्य तमः शरीरं यस्तमोऽन्तरो
>>> यमयत्येष त आत्मान्तर्याम्यमृतः ॥ १३ ॥
>>>
>>> He who, residing in tamas, impels the tamas (devata), but whom the tamas
>>> devata does not know, for whom tamas is body, this antaryami is your
>>> self.
>>>
>>> The Upanishad also says next that tejas, light, is a devata, etc.
>>>
>>> यस्तेजसि तिष्ठंस्तेजसोऽन्तरो यं तेजो न वेद यस्य तेजः शरीरं यस्तेजोऽन्तरो
>>> यमयत्येष त आत्मान्तर्याम्यमृत इत्यधिदैवतमथाधिभूतम् ॥ १४ ॥
>>>
>>> Recently in a chintana goshthi, a scholar asked 'in which element, bhuta,
>>> could tamas be included?' I felt that since it is admitted to be an
>>> object
>>> of the eye, the right element, bhuta, would be tejas, for among the five
>>> elements, rupa is the guna of tejas and since tamas has the black color
>>> that we perceive, it would be appropriate.
>>>
>>> Vidwan Sri Mani Dravid Sastrigal said in an Advaitasiddhi class that the
>>> mimamsakas admit tamas as an object, that is cognized by the eye as black
>>> in color.  Thus, tamas is a bhaavarupa object. An abhava cannot be black.
>>>
>>> Here is a audio recording of the Advaitasiddhi referred to above. One can
>>> get to know a lot of things from a variety of shaastra-s from the talk:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.mediafire.com/file/7yw76ziain9vu1z/091_MD_agnane_
>>> anumana_upapattih_01_120212.WAV
>>>
>>> Even though the talk is in Tamil, everyone with a basic understanding of
>>> Sanskrit can appreciate the recording as the lines from the Advaitasiddhi
>>> are read and many Sanskrit terms are used in the exposition. One can, if
>>> he
>>> chooses to, go to 7.40 minutes in the audio to hear about the tamas
>>> discussion.
>>>
>>> regards
>>> subbu
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
>>> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe or change your options:
>>> http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>>>
>>> For assistance, contact:
>>> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>>>
>>
>>
>