[Advaita-l] Without Shakti, Brahman has no role

sreenivasa murthy narayana145 at yahoo.co.in
Sat Jun 3 22:48:13 EDT 2017
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Dear Sri Venkatesha Murthy, I thank you for your kind reply.  Does your reply  address my request Viz., "I am curious to know whether the thought position in all  the quotations appearing in the various postings on the above subject are in tune with the above quoted Chandogya mantras?"? Please permit me to draw your kind attention to the fact that I always limit myself to Upanishads only and Sri Shankara,s commentary to those upanishads . The works which you have mentioned in your reply is of very little interest to me .

With respectful  namaskars,Sreenivasa Murthy


      From: Venkatesh Murthy <vmurthy36 at gmail.com>
 To: sreenivasa murthy <narayana145 at yahoo.co.in>; A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> 
 Sent: Saturday, 3 June 2017 11:39 PM
 Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Without Shakti, Brahman has no role
   
NamasteOn Sat, Jun 3, 2017 at 7:03 PM, sreenivasa murthy via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

Dear Friends,  It is very surprising that there is not even one response to my posting on 1st June.  Is my question an absurd one?  Is it that I do not deserve a reply because the question does not deserve an answer? 
  Have I been boycotted by the scholars of this group?     I do not know.I thank all the scholars.With respectful namasarams,Sreenivasa Murthy

I think your question has been answered before by scholars here and that is why they are not responding every time because your question is almost same every time. Kindly answer this question and if you answer this question it will be the answer to your question also. My question  to you is this. Why Adi Sankara wrote not only Prasthana Traya Bhashya but also Vishnu Sahasra Nama Bhashya, Lalita Trishati Bhashya, Prapanchasaara Tantra, Saundarya Lahari, Ananda Lahari, Sivananda Lahari, Subrahmanya Bhujanga Stotra, and many many Devata Stotras, IF he wanted to only convey Meaning of Upanishads to every man, woman and child? Why? Why? Why did he say Vedo-nityam-adhiyatam Taduditam karmasvanushthiyatam and so on? 


      From: sreenivasa murthy via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita- vedanta.org>
 To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita- vedanta.org>
Cc: sreenivasa murthy <narayana145 at yahoo.co.in>
 Sent: Thursday, 1 June 2017 11:58 PM
 Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Without Shakti, Brahman has no role

Dear Friends,
Mantra 7-25-1 Of Chandogya Upanishad declares : ahamEvEdagM sarvam||Mantra 7-25-2 of Chandogya Upanishad declares : AtmaivEdagM sarvam ||Mantra 7-26-1 of Chandogya Upanishad declares : AtmatO idagaM sarvam ||
I am curious to know whether the thought position in all  the quotations appearing in the various postings on the above subject are in tune with the above quoted Chandogya mantras? I request the scholars to enlighten me.                          Thanking you in anticipation,with respectful namaskars,Sreenivsa murthy


      From: V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita- vedanta.org>
 To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita- vedanta.org>
Cc: V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
 Sent: Thursday, 1 June 2017 4:38 PM
 Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Without Shakti, Brahman has no role
 
2017-06-01 10:09 GMT+05:30 Venkatesh Murthy via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita- vedanta.org>:

> Namaste
>
> True but Sankara  Bhashya also has अविद्यात्मिका हि सा बीज
> शक्तिरव्यक्तशब्दनिर्देश्या परमेश्वराश्रया मायामयी महासुषुप्तिः, यस्यां
> स्वरूपप्रतिबोधरहिताः शेरते संसारिणो जीवाः
>
> That Shakti is nothing but Maayaa only and Avidyaatmikaa.
>
> But in Saundarya Lahari Shakti is not like that. She is Brahman only and
> not different.


This verse of the Soundarya lahari, among many, holds Shakti as the consort
of Shiva, Para Brahman:

गिरामाहुर्देवीं द्रुहिणगृहिणीमागमविदो
हरेः पत्नीं पद्मां हरसहचरी-मद्रितनयाम्
तुरीया कापि त्वं दुरधिगम-निस्सीम-महिमा
महामाया विश्वं भ्रमयसि परब्रह्ममहिषि (97)

*Meaning :*

Oh ,  Queen of the Parabrahman, though those who have understood the
secrets of the Vedas, call you as Brahma’s (Druhina) wife Sarawathi (the
godess of learning), or call you as Vishnu’s (Hari) wife Lakshmi (Padma),
or call you as the partner of Shiva (Hara) and the daughter of the
mountains (Parvathi), While,  you perplex the world by being the
transcendent and unattainable fourth entity called Maha Maya, who is of
boundless spendour, and dazzles the world and gives life to it.

Here is one more:

विरिञ्चिः पञ्चत्वं व्रजति हरिराप्नोति विरोतिं
विनाशं कीनाशो भजति धनदो याति निधनम् ।
वितन्द्री माहेन्द्री विततिरपि संमीलति दिशां
महासंहारेऽस्मिन् विलसति सति त्वत्पतिरसौ ॥२६॥

The creator (Brahmā) reaches the dissolution,
 Vishnu attains death,
The god of death even dies,
Kubera the lord of wealth expires,
The Indras close their eyes one after one,
And attain the wakeless sleep,
During the final deluge,
But you my chaste mother,
Play with your consort the Sadashiva.

(In some translations it is said that Vishnu retires)

Maybe Shākta-s hold Shakti to be Parabrahman.




> Many Shakti worshippers also will say Shakti is same as
> Brahman. Adi Sankara did not say if there is Shakti there must always be
> Pravrutti. He only said if there is Pravrutti there must be Shakti.


In the cited BSB passage Shankara says: If there is no Shakti, there can be
no pravrtti for Brahman. Here pravrtti means: sriṣhti, etc. cosmic
functions.

regards
subrahmanian.v



> Shakti can be in Nivrutti condition also. Therefore Shakti is nothing but
> Brahman
> only.
>
>
>
> 2017-05-31 16:46 GMT+05:30 V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita- vedanta.org>:
>
> > In the Brahmasutra bhashya 1.4.3 तदधीनत्वादर्थवत् ॥ ३ ॥, Shankara makes a
> > very far-reaching statement:
> >
> > अत्रोच्यते — यदि वयं स्वतन्त्रां काञ्चित्प्रागवस्थां जगतः
> > कारणत्वेनाभ्युपगच्छेम, प्रसञ्जयेम तदा प्रधानकारणवादम् ; परमेश्वराधीना
> > त्वियमस्माभिः प्रागवस्था जगतोऽभ्युपगम्यते, न स्वतन्त्रा । सा
> > चावश्याभ्युपगन्तव्या ; अर्थवती हि सा ; न हि तया विना परमेश्वरस्य
> > स्रष्टृत्वं सिध्यति, शक्तिरहितस्य तस्य प्रवृत्त्यनुपपत्तेः ।
> >
> > If we admit an independent latent power as the cause of the world, then
> we
> > will be giving occasion to the Sankhya's pradhāna-as-the-cause doctrine.
> We
> > do accept a power that is subservient to Brahman and not something that
> is
> > independent. Such a latent power has to be necessarily admitted; it is
> with
> > purpose. Without that power Brahman's creatorship cannot be admitted
> since
> > a Brahman without such a power is completely non-functional.
> >
> > The idea conveyed here is very nicely presented by Shankara in the very
> > opening verse of the Soundaryalahari:
> >
> > शिवःशक्त्यायुक्तो यदि भवति शक्तःप्रभवितुं
> > न चेदेवं देवो न खलु कुशलः स्पन्दितुमपि।
> > अतस्त्वाम् आराध्यां हरि-हर-विरिन्चादिभिरपि
> > प्रणन्तुं स्तोतुं वा कथमकृतपुण्यः प्रभवति॥
> >
> > Shiva united with Shakti becomes able to manifest
> > If otherwise, this god knows not even how to pulsate.
> > How then could one of ungained merit be able to bow to, or even praise
> > One such as you, adored by Vishnu, Shiva and Brahma.
> >
> > In the above verse the greatness of Shakti is brought out by stating that
> > Shiva, Brahman, will be able to engage in cosmic activity only when
> united
> > with His power. Without so uniting with Her, it is impossible to do
> > anything for Brahman.
> >
> > Shankara in the BSB implies that when it comes to creation, etc., Brahman
> > has to depend on Shakti. Without that Shakti, the Nirguna, Nishkriya
> > Brahman is incapable of engaging in any activity.
> >
> > Thus Shankara conveys the Upanishadic message of the status and role of
> > Brahman and Shakti in the Brahmasutra and the Soundaryalahari.
> >
> > regards
> > vs
> > ______________________________ _________________
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> Regards
>
> -Venkatesh
> ______________________________ _________________
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-- 
Regards -Venkatesh
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