[Advaita-l] Time not Death

[H S Chandramouli]

Pranams.

Definitely. Mind too is a vyAvahArika satya. Why the doubt?


Regards

On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 12:17 PM, Sujal Upadhyay <sujal.u at gmail.com> wrote:

> Pranams,
> What about mind. Is mind too a vyavahArika satya?
> Regards
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 12:16 PM, H S Chandramouli <
> hschandramouli at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Pranams.
>>
>> Yes.  That is my understanding.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 12:12 PM, Sujal Upadhyay <sujal.u at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Pranams,
>>>
>>> I agree :) positively. So instead of 'concept' it is better to use
>>> 'vyavahArika satya' to describe time and mAyA.
>>>
>>> Hari OM
>>> Sujal
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 12:08 PM, H S Chandramouli <
>>> hschandramouli at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Pranams.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Reg  << Am I getting it wrong? >>,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Since you are asking, I am answering. I think so.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When you ask  << Can it be considered as real or truth?>>,  the answer
>>>> is Time is vyAvahArika satya. It is anirvachaniya, just as mAya is. I
>>>> hope I have stated my understanding clearly.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 11:56 AM, Sujal Upadhyay <sujal.u at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> prANAms,
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no one 'else' to experience it separately. If you say, there
>>>>> is absolutely no one who can experience, then we are negating Brahman. Is
>>>>> it not SunyavAda? If we do not agree that such a state exists, which is
>>>>> beyond mAyA, then is this the final position of advaita?
>>>>>
>>>>> If one has to explain this non-dual state, how can one explain this
>>>>> inexplainable state?
>>>>>
>>>>> Secondly, 'concept' means 'it is construct of mind' because in
>>>>> nirvikalpa samAdhi and in deep sleep, one is beyond time. 'Change' is the
>>>>> nature of time' Anything that changes is not constant. Can it be considered
>>>>> as real or truth? Am I getting it wrong? Does the state of nirvikalpa
>>>>> samAdhi accept time as eternal truth? Does advaita accept time as eternal
>>>>> and hence truth? Please clarify.
>>>>>
>>>>> OM
>>>>>
>>>>> Sujal
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 11:48 AM, H S Chandramouli <
>>>>> hschandramouli at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Reg  << when mind is extremely purified, we will have to rise above
>>>>>> mAyA. Hence for such a divine soul, time is a concept of mind as when one
>>>>>> is in suShupti or in samAdhi, one does not experience any time i.e. one is
>>>>>> not aware of how much time one has spent in deep sleep (suShupti) or how
>>>>>> much time one was in nirvikalpa samAdhi.>>,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When one has transcended mAya, or in Sushpti or samAdhi, one does not
>>>>>> experience Time. So how can it be a “concept”. He just does not experience
>>>>>> it at all. Period.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 11:34 AM, Sujal Upadhyay <sujal.u at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> praNAms,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Without Space and time i.e. deSa and kAla, there can be no activity
>>>>>>> and hence no creation, preservation and destruction. Hence when talking
>>>>>>> about any activity, these two have to be taken into account, but from
>>>>>>> pArmArthika satya, one is only aware of Self- Atman or Brahman and nothing
>>>>>>> else. Brahman devoid of space and time is nirvikalpa, achala, etc It cannot
>>>>>>> do any activity.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In order to understand creation and for sake of explanation for
>>>>>>> various doubts, mAyA and so space and time has to be taken into account.
>>>>>>> But if one wishes to move ahead i.e. go further deep to finally cross the
>>>>>>> border of mAyA, then mAyA, space, time and any such phenomenon has to be
>>>>>>> downgraded i.e. it's importance has to be decreased, so that mind will stop
>>>>>>> getting attached to them or getting attracted or immersed into them and
>>>>>>> finally rise above them to enter into nirvikalpa samAdhi.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From collective view point, we cannot ignore mAyA, space and time,
>>>>>>> but from individual standpoint, one day, when mind is extremely purified,
>>>>>>> we will have to rise above mAyA. Hence for such a divine soul, time is a
>>>>>>> concept of mind as when one is in suShupti or in samAdhi, one does not
>>>>>>> experience any time i.e. one is not aware of how much time one has spent in
>>>>>>> deep sleep (suShupti) or how much time one was in nirvikalpa samAdhi.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When there is no time, there cannot be any space or any distance
>>>>>>> that can be traveled. If there is no distance or space between observer and
>>>>>>> object (of / under observation), then there cannot be any object. Only pure
>>>>>>> consciousness remains. There is in-explainable (deep) peace. eko Brahman -
>>>>>>> SAntam Sivam advaitam.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, we will have to take both statements (and both arguments) in
>>>>>>> right context.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When bhagavAn says, he is both time and *beyond time*, what I
>>>>>>> understand is, bhagavAn or KRShNa is both sAkAra and nirAkAra or saguNa and
>>>>>>> nirguNa.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sujal
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 11:18 AM, H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l <
>>>>>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maya is anirvachaniya. It is not correct to state that it does not
>>>>>>>> exist
>>>>>>>> nor is it correct to say that it is only a concept. It is
>>>>>>>> vyAvahArika
>>>>>>>> satya. Same applies to kAla or Time. Upanishads clearly mention
>>>>>>>> "creation"
>>>>>>>> of Time.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 7:49 PM, Vēdānta Study Group via Advaita-l <
>>>>>>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> > hariH Om.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > */// Time is just a concept. It is like Maya. There is nothing
>>>>>>>> called Maya
>>>>>>>> > ///*
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Is there any pramana to suggest the above? As far as I know,
>>>>>>>> shankarAchArya
>>>>>>>> > mentions avidyA (for the sake of our discussion let us akin it to
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> > samaSTi mAyA) as having bhAva. It is a vastu enjoying existence,
>>>>>>>> albeit a
>>>>>>>> > dependent one. Therefore I am not too sure how we're saying there
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> > nothing called mAyA. As far as 'time' being just a concept, even
>>>>>>>> this I
>>>>>>>> > would approach with some skepticism. Space is just as real (or
>>>>>>>> unreal) as
>>>>>>>> > time is, in that they're both mithyA, but have a dependent
>>>>>>>> vyAvahAra
>>>>>>>> > reality.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > If time were just a concept, it would not be influenced by
>>>>>>>> anything, which
>>>>>>>> > we know to be untrue. But that aside, I'm we have shAstra to
>>>>>>>> indicate that
>>>>>>>> > mAyA is an existing principle, as are dEsha-kAlA
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Namaste,
>>>>>>>> > Prashant
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > On 19 June 2017 at 02:20, Jaldhar H. Vyas via Advaita-l <
>>>>>>>> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > > On Sun, 18 Jun 2017, R Krishnamoorthy via Advaita-l wrote:
>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>> > > Time is just a concept. It is like Maya. There is nothing
>>>>>>>> called Maya. We
>>>>>>>> > >> give the name Maya to things which we are not able to fully
>>>>>>>> understand
>>>>>>>> > or
>>>>>>>> > >> is beyond our logic. Time also does not exist. It is the name
>>>>>>>> given to
>>>>>>>> > the
>>>>>>>> > >> duration that elapses between any two events which is
>>>>>>>> measurable and
>>>>>>>> > fully
>>>>>>>> > >> recognisable. In the the Lord says I am Time to indicate He is
>>>>>>>> eternal
>>>>>>>> > >> that
>>>>>>>> > >> is the duration of His presence is lmmeasurable. And All
>>>>>>>> beings or non
>>>>>>>> > >> beings
>>>>>>>> > >> have limited duration between their birth to their death or
>>>>>>>> end.
>>>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>> > > This is true.  But it isn't it strange that people are afraid
>>>>>>>> of death
>>>>>>>> > but
>>>>>>>> > > not afraid of time?  Shankaracharya brings this out in the
>>>>>>>> mohamudgara
>>>>>>>> > > stotra in which he admonishes an old man who is studying to
>>>>>>>> vyakarana to
>>>>>>>> > > "bhaje govindam".
>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>> > > This is another example of bad interpretations and
>>>>>>>> translations.  Some
>>>>>>>> > > make it out to be some sort of tirade against grammar which is
>>>>>>>> ridiculous
>>>>>>>> > > to anyone who knows the position vyakarana plays in Sanskrit
>>>>>>>> scholarship.
>>>>>>>> > > (In fact according to thinkers like Bhartrahari, it is itself a
>>>>>>>> form of
>>>>>>>> > > Vedantic sadhana.)  No; what the acharya is saying is that why
>>>>>>>> would you
>>>>>>>> > > wait until your time has almost run out to begin sadhana?  The
>>>>>>>> right time
>>>>>>>> > > is now.
>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>> > > --
>>>>>>>> > > Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
>>>>>>>> > > _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>> > >
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>