[Advaita-l] Who is Ishwara? He is NARAYANA only. Beautiful and soothing Narayana Bhajan

Kalyan kalyan_kg at yahoo.com
Sun May 21 11:48:59 EDT 2017


//​This is answered in 2.1.13 of Brahma-sutra bhashya. ​It is only an axiomatic statement from the purvapakshi that we should swim or sink together. But there are counter-examples to that even in Pratyaksha (ल्लोकवत्). You call the bubbles in the ocean as ocean itself, not essentially different from ocean. You call the waves in the ocean as ocean itself, not essentially different. But never will you call bubbles are the same as waves! Though this difference was really told for existence of bhokta-bhogya difference (भोक्त्रापत्तेरविभागश्चेत् स्याल्लोकवत् ), it is applicable to your questions too.//

The ocean analogy does not work because the ocean is heterogenous while the Atman is homogenous.

--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 5/21/17, Sriram Sankaranarayanan <ssriram1992 at icloud.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Who is Ishwara? He is NARAYANA only. Beautiful and soothing Narayana Bhajan
 To: "Kalyan" <kalyan_kg at yahoo.com>, "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
 Cc: "Vidyasankar Sundaresan" <svidyasankar at gmail.com>
 Date: Sunday, May 21, 2017, 3:38 PM
 
 Sri Bharati Thirtha says, even if a
 question is asked in an improper manner, answers have to be
 given, otherwise the questioner might think that
 Vedanti's don't have answers. It is only an advise
 for the questioner that such improper vinaya viheena
 questions will not lead to his enlightenment.
 On Sun, May 21, 2017
 at 11:10 AM, Kalyan via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-
 vedanta.org> wrote:
 I am amused Vidyasankar.
 How could your warning have come sooner when I write only
 occasionally on the list?
 
 
 
 I think this list is a coterie, but I have no plans to quit
 on my own since I am only an occasional participant.
 
 
 
 Now moving on to your answer to my main question- If I know
 myself as nirvishesha Atman, I am no longer an ignoramus.
 But who was I before I gained this knowledge? Wasn't I
 the Atman? Isn't the Atman then the biggest ignoramus?
 ​I am not qualified to answer
 this, I leave this to more qualified
 members.​ 
 
 
 Moreover, you and I are both the One and same Atman. Why
 does my knowledge automatically not lead to your knowledge?
 After all, being the same entity, we both sink and swim
 together. Why do we both have to separately strive for
 liberation?
 ​This is
 answered in 2.1.13
 of Brahma-sutra bhashya. ​It is only an axiomatic
 statement from the purvapakshi that we should swim or sink
 together. But there are counter-examples to that even in
 Pratyaksha (ल्लोकवत्).
 You call the bubbles in the ocean as ocean itself, not
 essentially different from ocean. You call the waves in the
 ocean as ocean itself, not essentially different. But never
 will you call bubbles are the same as waves! Though this
 difference was really told for existence of bhokta-bhogya
 difference (भोक्त्रापत्तेरविभागश्चेत्
 स्याल्लोकवत् ), it is
 applicable to your questions too.
 Hamsah
 Soham
 Best
 Regards
 Kalyan
 
 
 
 ------------------------------ --------------
 
 On Sun, 5/21/17, Vidyasankar Sundaresan <svidyasankar at gmail.com>
 wrote:
 
 
 
  Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Who is Ishwara? He is NARAYANA
 only. Beautiful and soothing Narayana Bhajan
 
  To: "Kalyan" <kalyan_kg at yahoo.com>
 
  Cc: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta"
 <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedan
 ta.org>
 
  Date: Sunday, May 21, 2017, 2:47 PM
 
 
 
  If you knew that, Kalyan, you
 
  should agree that this comes much later,  rather than
 
  sooner. And if you think this list forms a coterie that
 
  excludes you, the decision about what comes next is
 
  yours.
 
  Best
 
  regards,Vidyasankar
 
  On May 21, 2017 10:07
 
  AM, "Kalyan" <kalyan_kg at yahoo.com>
 
  wrote:
 
  Vidyasankar
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  I knew you would warn me sooner or later. This list is
 meant
 
  for a coterie of a few. A mutual admiration society, I
 
  should say. If somebody does not fall in line, he or she
 is
 
  out.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  Now do whatever you want to do as the moderator.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  Regards
 
 
 
  Kalyan
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  -----------------------------
 - --------------
 
 
 
  On Sun, 5/21/17,
 
  Vidyasankar
 Sundaresan <svidyasankar at gmail.com>
 
  wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Who is Ishwara? He is NARAYANA
 
  only. Beautiful and soothing Narayana Bhajan
 
 
 
   To: "A discussion group for Advaita
 
  Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-
 
  vedanta.org>,
 "Kalyan" <kalyan_kg at yahoo.com>
 
 
 
   Date: Sunday, May 21, 2017, 10:34 AM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   Kalyan, I have a two part
 
 
 
   answer for you. The first is as an individual
 responding
 
  to
 
 
 
   you. The second is as a moderator of this list.
 
 
 
   If you know yourself as nirguNa, nirviSesha, then
 
 
 
   you are no longer an ignoramus. If you know yourself as
 
  any
 
 
 
   other, then you are the biggest ignoramus. Yet,
 whatever
 
 
 
   little you know in your ignorance is only through the
 
  light
 
 
 
   of your own self. Therefore, this nirguNa nirviSesha
 self
 
  is
 
 
 
   described as the paraMjyoti.
 
 
 
   That said, watch your language and your combative
 
 
 
   attitude. This list does not exist to fatten
 
  anybody's
 
 
 
   ego. Over the course of several posts, it appears that
 
  your
 
 
 
   motive is to showcase how well you can get under the
 
  skins
 
 
 
   of other list members. In that case, take it elsewhere.
 
  It
 
 
 
   contradicts your professed claims of wanting to have
 
 
 
   productive discussions. You are trying the patience of
 
 
 
   almost everybody here. The moderators have mostly taken
 a
 
 
 
   benign attitude towards your posting history, but this
 is
 
 
 
   something up with which we don't have to put
 
 
 
   forever.
 
 
 
   Vidyasankar
 
 
 
   On May 21, 2017 1:33
 
 
 
   AM, "Kalyan via Advaita-l"
 <advaita-l at lists.advaita-
 
  vedanta.org>
 
 
 
   wrote:
 
 
 
   Isn't
 
 
 
   the nirguNa nirvishesha Atman itself the biggest and
 only
 
 
 
   ignoramus in advaita? It beats me how such an Atman,
 
 
 
   wallowing in ignorance, can be described as param
 jyoti.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   Regards
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   Kalyan
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   ---------------------------- -- --------------
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   On Sun, 5/21/17, V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l
 
  <advaita-l at lists.advaita-
 
 
 
   vedanta.org> wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Who is Ishwara? He is
 NARAYANA
 
 
 
   only. Beautiful and soothing Narayana Bhajan
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    To: "A discussion group for Advaita
 Vedanta"
 
 
 
   <advaita-l at lists.advaita-
 
 
 
   vedanta.org>
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    Cc: "V Subrahmanian" <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    Date: Sunday, May 21, 2017, 2:10 AM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 11:05 PM,
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    Venkatesh Murthy via Advaita-l <
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    advaita-l at lists.advaita-
 
 
 
   vedanta.org>
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    > Namaste
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    >
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    > I listen to this
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    popular Narayana Bhajan without fail everyday like
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    > many many people -
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    >
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    > https://www.youtube.com/watch?
 
 
 
   v=BnLfUf1Iefc
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    >
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    > In the Narayana Sukta
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    Narayana is the Ultimate Ishwara. Who is He? The
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    > Upanisad has said -
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    >
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    > sa brahma sa śivaḥ
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    sa hariḥ sendraḥ so'kṣaraḥ paramaḥ
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    svarāṭ.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    >
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    > He is
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    Brahma, Siva, Vishnu, Indra and other gods. He is the
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    > Imperishable, the Absolute, the Autonomous
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    Being.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    >
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    Sayana in the bhashya to this sukta says - it
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    is not any mūrtiviṣeśa, that
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    is not any
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    particular form, meaning that it is Nirguna Brahman.
 He
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    gives
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    the shruti 'param
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    jyotirupasampadya..' which is discussed in the
 
  brahma
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    sutra bhashya as the self that is realized upon
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    right knowledge. This is
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    nirguna Brahman in
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    Advaita.  Sayana also says that this entity is the
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    adhishthana for the aropita jagat. That is
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    again nirguna brahman.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    regards
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    vs
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    >
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    > --
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    > Regards
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    >
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    > -Venkatesh
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    >
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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