[Advaita-l] What is Krishna's 'tattva'?

[Venkatraghavan S]

Indeed, the meaning of shruti such as साक्षी चेता केवलो निर्गुणश्च, नेति
नेति, सत्यं ज्ञानं अनन्तं ब्रह्म, शान्तं शिवम् अद्वैतं are all pointing to
the one non-dual, attribute-less consciousness.

That it is without any attributes whatsoever is repeated in several places
across the shruti, but most prominently in Br Up 3.8.8 and 3.8.9
अस्थूलमनण्वह्रस्वमदीर्घमलोहितमस्नेहमच्छायमतमोऽवाय्वनाकाशमसङ्गमरसमगन्धमचक्षुष्कमश्रोत्रमवागमनोऽतेजस्कमप्राणममुखममात्रमनन्तरमबाह्यं
न तदश्नाति किञ्चन न तदश्नाति कश्चन.

Shankaracharya in introducing 3.8.9 says अनेकविशेषणप्रतिषेधप्रयासात्
अस्तित्वं तावदक्षरस्योपगमितं श्रुत्या ; तथापि लोकबुद्धिमपेक्ष्य आशङ्क्यते
यतः, अतोऽस्तित्वाय अनुमानं प्रमाणमुपन्यस्यति — एतस्य वा अक्षरस्य । The
shruti, by negating the various attributes of the akshara, has established
its existence. However, by anticipating the common misconceptions about it,
the shruti provides other inferential explanations.

Later on, in the bhAShya to 3.8.12, Shankara in a beautiful passage
remarks: न हि अशनायाद्यतीतत्वम् अशनायादिधर्मवदवस्थावत्त्वं च एकस्य
युगपदुपपद्यते ; तथा शक्तिमत्त्वं च । विकारावयवत्वे च दोषाः
प्रदर्शिताश्चतुर्थे । तस्मात् एता असत्याः सर्वाः कल्पनाः । कस्तर्हि भेद
एषाम् ? उपाधिकृत इति ब्रूमः ; न स्वत एषां भेदः अभेदो वा, सैन्धवघनवत्
प्रज्ञानघनैकरसस्वाभाव्यात् , ‘अपूर्वमनपरमनन्तरमबाह्यम्’ (बृ. उ. २ । ५ । १९)
<http://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashya/Brha?page=2&id=BR_C02_S05_V19&hl=%E0%A4%85%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%82%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%AA%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%AC%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%B9%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%AE%E0%A5%8D>
 ‘अयमात्मा ब्रह्म’ (बृ. उ. २ । ५ । १९)
<http://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashya/Brha?page=2&id=BR_C02_S05_V19&hl=%E0%A4%85%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%BE%20%E0%A4%AC%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%B9%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AE>
इति
च श्रुतेः — ‘सबाह्याभ्यन्तरो ह्यजः’ (मु. उ. २ । १ । २)
<http://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashya/Mundaka?page=2&id=MD_C02_S01_V02&hl=%E0%A4%B8%E0%A4%AC%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%B9%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%AD%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%8B%20%E0%A4%B9%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%9C%E0%A4%83>
इति
च आथर्वणे । तस्मात् निरुपाधिकस्य आत्मनो निरूपाख्यत्वात् निर्विशेषत्वात्
एकत्वाच्च ‘नेति नेति’ (बृ. उ. २ । ३ । ६)
<http://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashya/Brha?page=2&id=BR_C02_S03_V06&hl=%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%BF%20%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%BF>
इति
व्यपदेशो भवति ; अविद्याकामकर्मविशिष्टकार्यकरणोपाधिरात्मा संसारी जीव उच्यते
; नित्यनिरतिशयज्ञानशक्त्युपाधिरात्मा अन्तर्यामी ईश्वर उच्यते ; स एव
निरुपाधिः केवलः शुद्धः स्वेन स्वभावेन अक्षरं पर उच्यते ।

BSB 1.2.14 निर्गुणमपि सद्ब्रह्म नामरूपगतैर्गुणैः सगुणमुपासनार्थं तत्र
तत्रोपदिश्यत इत्येतदप्युक्तमेव । सर्वगतस्यापि ब्रह्मण उपलब्ध्यर्थं
स्थानविशेषो न विरुध्यते, सालग्राम इव विष्णोरित्येतदप्युक्तमेव ॥
BSB 3.3.12 उपचितापचितगुणत्वं हि सति भेदव्यवहारे सगुणे ब्रह्मण्युपपद्यते, न
निर्गुणे परस्मिन्ब्रह्मणि । अतो न सत्यकामत्वादीनां धर्माणां
क्वचिच्छ्रुतानां सर्वत्र प्राप्तिरित्यर्थः ॥

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 11:45 AM, sreenivasa murthy <narayana145 at yahoo.co.in
> wrote:

> Dear Sri Venkataraghavan,
> You write :"There is no such thing as your tattva, as that would imply two
> things - you and your tattva.  What is the basis for that statement "you
> are the tattva - the all pervading, non dual consciousness. "  Will you
> kindly establish that as a  verifiable fact ? Has it been done in
> Upanishads? Your statement needs the support of Sruti, yukti and anuBava.
> In the absence of these Viz.,Sruti, yukti and anuBava- it will only be a
> mere statement and it becomes very difficult to accept your statement as
> the truth. Please reveal.
> Thanking you,
> With respectful namaskars,
> Sreenivasa Murthy
>
>
> On Monday 20 November 2017, 1:19:14 PM IST, Venkatraghavan S <
> agnimile at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Namaste,
> There is no such thing as your tattva, as that would imply two things -
> you and your tattva. Therefore, you are the tattva - the all pervading, non
> dual consciousness.
>
> Regards,
> Venkatraghavan
>
> On 19 Nov 2017 4:36 p.m., "sreenivasa murthy via Advaita-l" <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> Dear Readers,
> What is "my" tattva? tattvadarSis may please help me in getting the
> answer.I will be very grateful. Thanking you,With respectful
> namaskara,Sreenivasa Murthy
>
>
>     On Sunday 19 November 2017, 8:04:01 AM IST, V Subrahmanian via
> Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita- vedanta.org
> <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>> wrote:
>
>  Copying a post from the Advaitin forum:
>
> Venkatraghavan S
> Today at 1:58 AM
> Thank you for the enlightening post Subbuji. The first part reminded me of
> Mahaperiyava's Chandrashekharendra Sarasvati Svamigal's commentary on this
> Bhagavad Gita sloka 18.55, in his own voice: (in Tamil)
> https://youtu.be/3JiyzcJMB4Q
>
> Regards,
> Venkatraghavan
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 12:22 AM, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> > The word 'tattva' means: tasya bhāvaḥ tattvam. The true nature of a thing
> > is called tattvam.
> >
> > Shankara says BSB 1.1.21:
> >
> > कथमेतदवगम्यते ? ‘येनाक्षरं पुरुषं वेद सत्यं प्रोवाच तां तत्त्वतो
> ब्रह्मविद्याम्’
> > (मु. उ. १ । २ । १३)
> > <http://advaitasharada. sringeri.net/display/bhashya/
> Mundaka?page=1&id=MD_C01_S02_ V13&hl=%E0%A4%AF%E0%A5%87%E0%
> A4%A8%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%95%E0%A5% 8D%E0%A4%B7%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%82%
> 20%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%81%E0%A4%B0% E0%A5%81%E0%A4%B7%E0%A4%82%20%
> E0%A4%B5%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%A6%20% E0%A4%B8%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%8D%E0%
> A4%AF%E0%A4%82%20%E0%A4%AA%E0% A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%8B%E0%A4%
> B5%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%9A%20%E0%A4% A4%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%82%20%E0%A4%
> A4%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A4% E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%A4%E0%
> A5%8B%20%E0%A4%AC%E0%A5%8D%E0% A4%B0%E0%A4%B9%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%
> AE%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%A6% E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%BE%E0% A4%AE%E0%A5%8D
> <http://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashya/Mundaka?page=1&id=MD_C01_S02_V13&hl=%E0%A4%AF%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%95%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B7%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%82%20%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%81%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%81%E0%A4%B7%E0%A4%82%20%E0%A4%B5%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%A6%20%E0%A4%B8%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%82%20%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%8B%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%9A%20%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%82%20%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%8B%20%E0%A4%AC%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%B9%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%A6%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%AE%E0%A5%8D>>
> इति
> > प्रकृतस्यैवाक्षरस्य भूतयोनेरदृश्यत्वादिगुणकस्य वक्तव्यत्वेन
> > प्रतिज्ञातत्वात् ।
> >
> > Here the word 'tattva' of the Mundakopanishat is given the meaning: That
> > Source of the Beings that cannot be seen with the eye, etc.
> >
> > We have in the Bh.Gītā the Lord saying:
> >
> > भक्त्या मामभिजानाति
> > यावान्यश्चास्मि तत्त्वतः ।
> > ततो मां तत्त्वतो ज्ञात्वा
> > विशते तदनन्तरम् ॥ ५५ ॥
> >
> > He who knows Me as the Vishvarupa and also As I am actually in truth,
> > thus having known Me actually, he becomes one with Me immediately.
> >
> > Shankara says: भक्त्या माम् अभिजानाति यावान् अहम् उपाधिकृतविस्तरभेदः,
> > यश्च अहम् अस्मि विध्वस्तसर्वोपाधिभेदः उत्तमः पुरुषः आकाशकल्पः, तं माम्
> > अद्वैतं चैतन्यमात्रैकरसम् अजरम् अभयम् अनिधनं तत्त्वतः अभिजानाति । ततः
> माम्
> > एवं तत्त्वतः ज्ञात्वा विशते तदनन्तरं मामेव ज्ञानानन्तरम् । नात्र
> > ज्ञानप्रवेशक्रिये भिन्ने विवक्षिते ‘ज्ञात्वा विशते तदनन्तरम्’ इति । किं
> > तर्हि ? फलान्तराभावात् ज्ञानमात्रमेव, ‘क्षेत्रज्ञं चापि मां विद्धि’ (भ.
> > गी. १३ । २)
> > <http://advaitasharada. sringeri.net/display/bhashya/
> Gita?page=13&id=BG_C13_V02&hl= %E0%A4%95%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B7%
> E0%A5%87%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%8D%E0% A4%B0%E0%A4%9C%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%
> 9E%E0%A4%82%20%E0%A4%9A%E0%A4% BE%E0%A4%AA%E0%A4%BF%20%E0%A4%
> AE%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%82%20%E0%A4% B5%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%A6%E0%A5%8D%
> E0%A4%A7%E0%A4%BF
> <http://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashya/Gita?page=13&id=BG_C13_V02&hl=%E0%A4%95%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B7%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%9C%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%9E%E0%A4%82%20%E0%A4%9A%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%AA%E0%A4%BF%20%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%82%20%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%A6%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A7%E0%A4%BF>>
> इति
>
> > उक्तत्वात् ॥
> >
> > Shankara gives the Tattva of Bhagavān: By devotion one knows Me with the
> > upādhi-created expansive form (Vishvarūpa), and 'As I am' free of all
> > upādhis, the Supreme Purusha, Brahman, just like ether, Advaitam, without
> > any kind of second, Pure Consciousness, free of old age, fear, death,
> thus
> > knowing Me 'tattvataḥ', As I Am in truth...Having secured the right
> > knowledge of Me, he 'enters' Me. Shankara raises a question, with a
> teaser:
> > Is this 'entering' the Lord mean anything like: After knowing, one enters
> > later?'. No. Then what does the Lord say: By using the word 'viśate
> > tadanantaram', 'enters immediately upon knowing'. There is no fruit other
> > than knowing, as the Lord has said in the 13.2: Know Me as the Kshetrajna
> > as well.'
> >
> > Shankara is reiterating the Vedānta siddhānta: there is no two-step
> > procedure here: first know and then enter. It is jnanamātrāt mokṣa. He
> has
> > said this elaborately in the BSB 1.1.1.4, samanvaya sutra bhashya. This
> is
> > an aside.
> >
> >
> >
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