[Advaita-l] What is Krishna's 'tattva'?

[Venkatraghavan S]

Yes, the effect is non different from the cause. However it does not mean
the cause is same as the effect.

Please read the full bhAShya of 2.1.14.

Especially: सर्वज्ञस्येश्वरस्यात्मभूते इवाविद्याकल्पिते
नामरूपेतत्त्वान्यत्वाभ्यामनिर्वचनीये
संसारप्रपञ्चबीजभूतेसर्वज्ञस्येश्वरस्य मायाशक्तिः प्रकृतिरिति
चश्रुतिस्मृत्योरभिलप्येते ; ताभ्यामन्यः सर्वज्ञ ईश्वरः,

Why does Shankara say that names and forms are sarvajnasya Ishvarasya
AtmabhUta (ie they are part of him), and later say sarvajna: Ishvara:
tAbhyAm anya: (ie he is different from them)?

*Thus, the effect is non different from the cause, but the cause is
different from the effect.*

Continuing,
 एवमविद्याकृतनामरूपोपाध्यनुरोधीश्वरो भवति,
व्योमेवघटकरकाद्युपाध्यनुरोधि ; स च
स्वात्मभूतानेवघटाकाशस्थानीयानविद्याप्रत्युपस्थापितनामरूपकृतकार्यकरणसङ्घातानुरोधिनो
जीवाख्यान्विज्ञानात्मनः प्रतीष्टेव्यवहारविषये ;
*तदेवमविद्यात्मकोपाधिपरिच्छेदापेक्षमेवेश्वरस्येश्वरत्वं
सर्वज्ञत्वंसर्वशक्तित्वं च, न परमार्थतो विद्यया
अपास्तसर्वोपाधिस्वरूपेआत्मनि ईशित्रीशितव्यसर्वज्ञत्वादिव्यवहार
उपपद्यते ;  *
He is saying that Ishvara's omniscience, etc are contingent upon the
avidyAtmaka upAdhi, and without such an upAdhi there is no rulership,
omniscience etc.

To summarise, the same bhAShya passage says
1) the world is non different from Brahman
2) names and forms, which are as though conjured by ignorance, are the
seeds of the world, and are part of Ishvara.
3) However Ishvara is different from them.
4) His omniscience depends on the upAdhi conjured up ignorance.
5) Free of upAdhi, there is neither ruler, nor ruled, nor omniscience etc.

The only way these multiple statements can simultaneously hold true is if
they are being said from two frames of reference. In vyavahAra, you have
names and forms from ignorance, out of which this world appears. Such a
world is non different from Brahman. However Ishvara, whose omniscience
stems from an upAdhi conjured up by ignorance, is different from them.

In paramArtha, there is no ignorance, thus no upAdhi, nor names and forms
and no world. Talk of non difference with Brahman is absurd here, because
there is only one entity, so there is neither difference nor non difference.

It is knowledge of such a upAdhi rahita Brahman that is moksha, thus there
is no point holding on to ananyatvam of kArya, look at the kArya kAraNa
atIta vastu.

Regards,
Venkatraghavan

On 22 Nov 2017 4:26 a.m., "Durga Prasad Janaswamy via Advaita-l" <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Hari Om,
>
> Pranams.
>
> Everything not Brahman is asat.
>
> mithyA is non-difference from, i.e.non-existence in isolation from,
> Brahman.
>
> Brahma Sutra: 2.1.14
> अभ्युपगम्य चेमं व्यावहारिकं भोक्तृभोग्यलक्षणं विभागम् ‘ स्याल्लोकवत्’ इति
> परिहारोऽभिहितः ; न त्वयं विभागः परमार्थतोऽस्ति, यस्मात्तयोः
> कार्यकारणयोरनन्यत्वमवगम्यते । कार्यमाकाशादिकं बहुप्रपञ्चं जगत् ; कारणं परं
> ब्रह्म ; तस्मात्कारणात्परमार्थतोऽनन्यत्वं व्यतिरेकेणाभावः
> कार्यस्यावगम्यते ।
>
> Swami Gambhirananda's translation:
> Assuming, for the sake of argument, an empirical difference between the
> experiencer and the things experienced, the refutation (under the previous
> aphorism) was advance by holding that "the distinction can well exist as
> observed in common experience". But in reality, this difference does not
> exist, since a non-difference between those cause and effect is recognized.
> The effect is the universe, diversified as space etc. and the cause is the
> supreme Brahman. In reality it is known that the effect has non-difference
> from, i.e.non-existence in isolation from, that cause.
>
> regards
> -- durga prasad
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 8:58 AM, Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > Namaste Sri Sreenivasa Murthy,
> > To clarify, all my email is saying that there is nothing beyond you -
> > nothing outside, nothing inside. The methodology given in shruti - neti
> > neti is also saying that. There is nothing to memorize, nothing to
> > interiorize, only stuff to be given up. Every conception of Brahman is
> not
> > Brahman. Everything not Brahman is mithyA. Everything mithyA is to be
> given
> > up.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Venkatraghavan
> >
> >
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