[Advaita-l] cloning and inevitable mrutyu

[Raghav Kumar Dwivedula]

Namaste Jayakumar ji
Thank you for the inputs. My additional question is - on what basis can we
categorically rule out self-judgement in the case of a putative android
which lets say looks and outwardly mimics a human to the point of even
cribbing about life or his lot and saying/vocalising through a speech
generator - "I am small and insignificant" etc.

I said additional question becoz even  without complexes and self-judgement
a mammal like a cow (which we assume does not have complexes) is accorded
jiiva status but not a sophisticated speaking  robot claiming "I am
small." What could be the reasons for this?

The same panchabhUtas are the constituents of the gross bodies of both the
regular jiiva and a robot mouthing "I am small and insignificant". Yet
there is some significant difference between the way matter is organized in
living beings as compared to an android. We can use different words like
Jada and cetana. Or in a different way chidAbhAsa and its absence etc, but
there is a definite material difference which is currently not clearly
understood, between the way matter is put together in living and nonliving
systems.

BhAShya too mentions this in katha  upaniShad someplace. And I remember in
upadesha sAhasrI too,  the arising of antahkaraNa and ahamkAra is said to
be mediated by an almost magical arrangement of the same constituents of
matter that go to make up a stone or a chair etc, just as any metal surface
is not a mirror but some specially polished surfaces catch the reflection
of all-pervading consciousness and these are the individual jiiva-s.

Om
Raghav

On Tue 24 Apr, 2018, 12:00 PM Jay Kumar via Advaita-l, <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Namaste Shri Raghavji and to all,
>
> Questioning Vedanta may appear  proper  only when the scientist claim to
> have produced and demonstrate an entity with self-judgement, un-programmed
> feelings, un-inhibited aspirations, self-complex etc. etc…. (on a
> futuristic day even when we will  have our purposeful answer).
>
> Coming to the next statement :
> “the question is, can we extend the privilege to still lower entities like
> insects (yes), viruses (doubtful), plants(yes), stones (no). But where do
> we draw the line?”
>
> Answer – ‘Drawing the line’ : The precise answer is the theory of
> causation involving 3 types of karmas, re-birth, the ‘as though’ bondage,
> wisdom, liberation etc.  is applicable to the ‘beings’ that have
> ‘Individuality’ whereas the individuality itself is ‘unreal’!
>
> Contradictions or clarification (if needed) can be shared over phone
>
> S K Jayakumar
> Mobile : 9916494729
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Advaita-l [mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org] On
> Behalf Of Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l
> Sent: 24 April 2018 10:51
> To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
> Cc: Raghav Kumar Dwivedula
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] cloning and inevitable mrutyu
>
> Namaste
>
> A more difficult to answer question would be of the kind - How do we
> decide a given entity is a jiva with sanchita karma or is it just an
> Android or machine which merely mimics speech, facial features etc.
> I.e., a sophisticated robot ?
>
> Any clone is generally initially cultured in vitro (i.e., in a "test
> tube") and later transplanted in vivo (into a uterus) and later the baby is
> delivered in a regular way. And given its biological/organic physiology and
> neuronal architecture it's quite credibly a jiva in its own right with its
> own sanchita karma etc. This is my understanding.
>
> Now if we consider a futuristic android (a real android not its namesake
> smartphone OS !) which has a brain consisting of just electronic devices
> with no neuronal structures, it's does not sound believable if some people
> like the proponents of strong-AI claim it's a human being who has the
> faculties and capacities and consequently the rights of a human being.
> (Others like Roger Penrose contradict this). But can we give a precise
> reason why an electronic entity cannot be considered a jiva with the usual
> faculties of iccha, GYAna, and kriya and having sanchita karma etc.
>
> Another related question - we can talk of higher mammals like deer, cows
> etc., as having sanchita karma etc. Now the question is, can we extend the
> privilege to still lower entities like insects (yes), viruses (doubtful),
> plants(yes), stones (no). But where do we draw the line?
>
> The concept of chidAbhAsa is to some extent helpful in figuring this out
> since it (chidAbhAsa) does indeed depend on the underlying neuronal biology
> and not merely on the superficial faculties of speech and motion which a
> robot or android can mimic.
> Om
> Raghav
>
>
> On Tue 24 Apr, 2018, 9:17 AM Bhaskar YR via Advaita-l, <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > praNAms Sri Sada prabhuji and Sri Venkateshwaran prabhuji Hare Krishna
> >
> > Thanks for the clarification.  Just wondering what would be karma /
> > dharma for these cloning creatures :-) Perhaps it is their karma phala
> > to get created through cloning technology :-)
> >
> > Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
> > bhaskar
> >
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