[Advaita-l] Samvadi Brama

[V Subrahmanian]

http://talkandcomment.com/p/be0d2a70c55338b4e741402b (voice note)

regards

On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 8:10 AM V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 10:48 PM Aditya Kumar via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>> Namaste,
>> Sometimes we may confuse a rope for a snake but sometimes we may
>> encounter an actual snake. Prior to both the outcomes, the person who is
>> seeing the snake is in a state of uncertainty. Regardless of the both the
>> outcomes, the person clearly sees either the rope or the snake. So the true
>> svarupa of an object is necessary for an outcome. So once the person sees
>> the actual lamp or jewel or rope or snake, it is not a brama anymore even
>> in the illustration. Brama is applicable only as long as the person is not
>> certain. So I wonder why this illustration or a redundant concept is
>> brought up to explain nothing. We see samsara due to erroneous view and it
>> is ought to be sublated by the correct knowledge, samyag darshana. So how
>> is it that the Upanishads are declared as brama? Is brahma-jnana a brama?
>> Doesn't erroneous knowledge lead to wrong perception? The
>> example/illustration given in panchadashi is not at all satisfactory
>> because unlike the confused person in pursuit of the jewel, the Upanishads
>> are certain about Brahman.
>> The objects of meditation cannot be brama because everyone knows it is
>> kalpita. Is there no difference between a kalpana or a mental object or
>> even a physical object or a symbol and a brama which is erroneous notion?
>> How can anyone meditate on an erroneous notion? The erroneous view of a
>> snake could be sublated by another erroneous notion and we may see a tail
>> of a monkey. But eventually, we have to see its true svarupa. How can
>> erroneous notion show us the true svarupa of Brahman or anything for that
>> matter? There seems to be no such concept in Shankara's commentaries or
>> prakarana texts. If there is any mention of the word samvadi brama or an
>> explanation of the concept with an illustration is available, I request the
>> members to kindly share the reference.
>>
>
> All scripture-taught upasanas are no more than kalpana-s, imagining a
> particular devatA form or a concept as taught in the scripture.  The phalam
> of such kalpana is also specified therein.
>
>
>> The upasaka uses the mind's kalpanashakti to 'realize' something the
>>> shastra enjoins.  That vishnu resides in the sAligrama stone is only an
>>> adhyAropa approved by the shAstra. All consecration of idols/temples is on
>>> this principle.
>>>
>>
>
>> RV: The worship of saligrama shila is not kalpana. It is shrauddha vidhi.
>>
>
> If you read Shankaracharya's bhashya you will come across this idea:
>
> व्याप्तेश्च समञ्जसम्  । ब्रह्मसूत्र ३,३.९  । [BSB 3.3.9 beginning part]
>
> तत्राध्यासो नाम
> द्वयोर्वस्तुनोरनिवर्तितायामेवान्यतरबुद्धावन्यतरबुद्धिरध्यस्यते   ।
>
> यस्मिन्नितरबुद्धिरध्यस्यतेऽनुवर्तत एव
> तस्मिंस्तद्बुद्धिरध्यस्तेतरबुद्धावपि   ।
>
> यथा नाम्नि ब्रह्मबुद्धावध्यस्यमानायामप्यनुवर्तत एव नामबुद्धिर्न
> ब्रह्मबुद्ध्या निवर्तते   । यथावा प्रतिमादिषु विष्ण्वादिबुद्ध्यध्यासः ।
>
>
> [pl. read the English translation of the first three or four sentences, if
> necessary.]
>
>
> http://talkandcomment.com/p/ed300be165eade21a1f830f0 (voice note)
>
> regards
> subbu
>
>
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>