[Advaita-l] The 'Light of Consciousness'.

[kuntimaddi sadananda]

Raghavji - PraNAms
Yes - the question boils down to from what reference state the discussion is made. 
>From my understanding - Nature has provided a dream example to everyone to question the reality of the plurality that one perceives. Vaithatya prakarana emphasis is that also, as I understand. Hence the statement - the dream is not a dream for a dreamer while in dream - only when one is awake, it becomes clear to the waker that dream was experienced but not is not really real - a conclusion arrived at by a waker, not by a dreamer. 
Similarly, the scripture using this example for the one who thinks waking state is real - asking him to wake-up to his real status where the plurality that he experiencing in the waking state is also real. When he wakes up to that state of understanding he is a jnaani who proclaims that there is really no creation - ajaati vaada. 
With this, I remain.
Hari Om!
Sadananda

 

   On Wednesday, December 26, 2018, 3:49:16 PM GMT+5:30, Raghav Kumar Dwivedula <raghavkumar00 at gmail.com> wrote: 
 
 Namaste Chandramouli and Sada jiIt appears that the word dreamer is being used in two different ways here.Let's say a begging person B starts to dream he is a King K. Now, does the word 'dreamer' refer to B alone whose memories are the material out of which has been projected the dream universe. Or dies the word dreamer refer to K, the incidental avatar assumed within the dream?You are taking the first stand. Sada ji is assuming the second. Now is one of these stands alone appropriate in the context of Mandukya? 
When Shruti takes of ekonavimshati mukhah of taijasa , is She referring to B's sUxma sharIra or is it K's sUxma sharIra (the one which is entirely sublated on waking from dream) that is being pointed to? 
In the context of the svayam-jyotiH brAhmaNa, the jIva moves along the nADis etc., during dream and projects the dream by his own inner Light, so there it's the waker i.e.,  B's indriyAs alone that are referenced . But I am not so sure in the mANDukya context as I mentioned in the previous para.
Looking for some more inputs from you ...thank youOmRaghav
On Wed 26 Dec, 2018, 1:18 PM kuntimaddi sadananda via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org wrote:

Chandramouliji PraNAms
As I understand, one has to look each state from its own reference. What you said is true from the point of wakers' mind. When the dream world is created, the waker's mind becomes Iswara's mind that pervades the entire dream universe that includes all the jeevas in the dream. Having created the dream world, one can say 'He enters' as the subject in the dream creation and there other objects which constitute chara and achara - or sentient and insentient beings with their own bodies. As Swami Paramarthanandaji - the dream is not a dream for a dreamer while he is the dream'. I should have put that statement in quotes. Hence from dream subject point as Mandukya Upanishad (aagama part) - which describes the dream state - in the same fashion as the waking state. -ekona vimshati mukhaH - is used for both the waker and dreamer - 19 gateways the subject experiences - five jnaanedriyas, five karmendriyas, five praanaas and mind, intellect, memory and ego - total 19 applies both the waker jeeva and dreamer jeeva. If I am running away from the tiger that is chasing me and tiger is also perhaps praying god to have her food after a long time, karmendriyas and jnaanedriyas are functioning for both 'jeevas'. Hence a dream subject I am perceiving the world outside including the sun and running in the forest in the sunlight only. Only when I am awakened from the dream then I realize that it is all dream and I do not have to go after that tiger with a gun. Then it is recognized that it was in the play of MI due to suppressions and oppressions in the mind which act as seed vaasanaasa for my dream creation. 
If one looks at the vaitatya prakarana - Goudapaada says - perceptibility, transactability or utility are not the criteria to establish the reality since these are possible in both waking and dream state. That which is abhaadhitam or that is which has nityatvam alone is real. 

Hari Om!
Sadananda





   On Wednesday, December 26, 2018, 12:54:30 PM GMT+5:30, H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote: 

 Pranams Sri Sadananda Ji,

I was not clear about what the post intended to say about the dream state.
Hence I have taken just one sentence from it to present my understanding
of  the dream state.

<< There also dreamer jeeva has mind different from the mind of the tiger
that is chasing him. The actions and the thoughts are motivated by the
dreamer's karmedriyas and jnaanedriyas >>.

Only the dreamer has MI. The other socalled jIvAs like tiger, humans, even
the look-alike dreamer jIva ( dreamer jIva in the dream, maybe in another
garb) etc all have no mind of their own. They are only part of the
dreamer’s subtle MI manifest in a seemingly gross form. There are no
indriyas ( karmendriyas or jnanendriyas ) functional as well. Mandukya
kArika 2-15 may be referred. No pramANAs are operative. The dream objects
including the jIvAs, along with their knowledge thereof,  are
projected/manifested  simultaneously.

Regards

<https://www.avast.com/en-in/recommend?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=default3&tag=c38b8036-11b2-4cda-8073-9f1b65c98183>
I’m
protected online with Avast Free Antivirus. Get it here — it’s free forever.
<https://www.avast.com/en-in/recommend?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=default3&tag=c38b8036-11b2-4cda-8073-9f1b65c98183>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Tue, Dec 25, 2018 at 7:58 PM kuntimaddi sadananda via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> PraNAms
> Dream experience comes under internal perceptions where sense waking world
> sense input is not there.
> What one experiences is based on the memory stored in the mind from past
> experiences with intermixing of those. The dream world is created not
> sequentially but simultaneously. Mandukya uses a parallel statement -
> eknona vimshati mukaH - 19 gateways through which the world is experienced,
> where the BMI of the waker jeeva or dreamer jeeva experiencing their
> external world.
> The dream is not a dream for a dreamer while in the dream.
> Hence similar  pramaanas can operate for the parallel jeevas - One can
> have in the dream the hare with horns since it is the waker's mind that can
> create from the memory of hares and horns and the dreamer jeeva does not
> find it as strange. There also dreamer jeeva has mind different from the
> mind of the tiger that is chasing him. The actions and the thoughts are
> motivated by the dreamer's karmedriyas and jnaanedriyas. The thought that
> arises in the mind of the dreamer jeeva is illumined by the light of
> consciousness, just similar to what happens in the waking world. That it
> was different and not real is the only conclusion of the waker and not a
> dreamer.
> Hence we can have sunlight, moonlight etc just as in the waking world but
> they are unreal only from the point of the waker and not from the point of
> the dreamer.
> Goudapaada vaitatya prakarana centers on this to prove that two worlds are
> similar and unreal.
> The one who has awakened to the paaramaarthika state, for him even the
> waking world is unreal.
> The descriptions are parallel as Madukya puts it.
> Just my 2c.
> Hari Om!Sadananda
>
>
>
>    On Sunday, December 23, 2018, 2:59:48 PM GMT+5:30, Raghav Kumar
> Dwivedula via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> The dream experience demonstrates the fact that the external object and
> extrnal sources of light are not essential for our experience of 'Light'.
> (AtmA is svayam-jyotiH)
>
>
> You incidentally mentioned the following in your post viz., - it's just
> incidental but was reminded of a humourous video. You wrote-
>
> "When I am sitting in a dark room, if you ask me if there is a chair in the
> room, I say, I do not know, since I cannot see it. The chair may be there
> or may not be there. The probability for the existence or its non-existence
> is 50 percent since there are only two choices."
>
> It appears there is a mix up in the above para between possibilities (of
> which there are two viz., either the chair is there or not there ) with
> probabilities (which will have to be weighted based on specifics). We
> cannot say that all possibilities are equally probable and say it's 50 per
> cent for each possibility. For example, a wrong argument would be to say -
> "there are three possibilities when you toss a coin - heads or tails or 'it
> lands on its edge'. So the probability of landing on its edge is 33%."
>
> There is a humourous video related to this.
>
> https://youtu.be/7y4T7DnSeo0
>
> Om
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> > http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
> >
> > To unsubscribe or change your options:
> > https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
> >
> > For assistance, contact:
> > listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> > http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
> >
> > To unsubscribe or change your options:
> > https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
> >
> > For assistance, contact:
> > listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>
> To unsubscribe or change your options:
> https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>
> For assistance, contact:
> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>
> To unsubscribe or change your options:
> https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>
> For assistance, contact:
> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>

<https://www.avast.com/en-in/recommend?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=default3&tag=c38b8036-11b2-4cda-8073-9f1b65c98183>
I’m
protected online with Avast Free Antivirus. Get it here — it’s free forever.
<https://www.avast.com/en-in/recommend?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=default3&tag=c38b8036-11b2-4cda-8073-9f1b65c98183>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
_______________________________________________
Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita

To unsubscribe or change your options:
https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l

For assistance, contact:
listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org

_______________________________________________
Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita

To unsubscribe or change your options:
https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l

For assistance, contact:
listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org